depopulationINC

Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
By the sounds of it Ray could be done for the season with a broken rib. If that is the case then what does Barker do? Speculation of Willy to the Argos from lawless but also a possibility of Glenn.What about Durant now or even in the off season.?  Would Jones jump off that ledge in thinking not being able to sign Darian so just pull the trigger now?

Having said that Jones did say that he wanted to start talks with Darian well before the season ended.

The reality is though with Jones you never know, but man I would not want to be in his shoes if he did it. This could get interesting to say the least.


Honestly...have a good sitdown and feel it out.  If it sounds like the sides are not close to terms then lay it out there and say "this is realistically what we can offer" if DD is not interested in that...then yes...absolutely move him.  I am hoping DD stays...I hope he retires a Rider...but the reality is that if it is not sounding like terms will come to be easily then you have to take what you have to take a good offer.  The reality is that even if DD sticks around they need to leave room in his contract to start bringing along the next guy...and that means leaving some bonus structure room so that they can balance the contracts...DD may not go for that.  I think that they want him for 400...he was making 510 and went to 450....I tend to think that they can make a deal somewhere between those numbers....that might mean giving him cash up front...which sucks.  Cash up front is "ok" if you get a discount or it tips a bidding war....not so much if it is retaining an existing vet, paying them top in their spot and there in not getting a discount for the cash up front.  

Now is not a good time to be negotiating a contract for either side...the team is not winning...bad for DD....most attention is on NFL cuts at the moment...bad for the club....but the wise move is talking it out and coming to a tentative deal or knowing that it might be time to pick up that phone.

of course

If Ray is done for the year, and the Argo replacement QB (probably LeFevour) stinks against Hamilton this Sunday, the Argos WILL trade for either Glenn, Durant or Willy.  Otherwise T.O. can kiss the playoffs goodbye.

The only way it will be Durant is if Barker is willing to be fleeced by Jones.  The asking price for Glenn or Willy, 2 QB's who currently are not starters, would be much lower.

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "of course"
If Ray is done for the year, and the Argo replacement QB (probably LeFevour) stinks against Hamilton this Sunday, the Argos WILL trade for either Glenn, Durant or Willy.  Otherwise T.O. can kiss the playoffs goodbye.

The only way it will be Durant is if Barker is willing to be fleeced by Jones.  The asking price for Glenn or Willy, 2 QB's who currently are not starters, would be much lower.

Rumor  has it the Bombers want an NI starter and a 1st rounder for Willy. For Glenn a mid round pick. As for Barker  getting fleeced for Durant to be honest after what he has pulled on us this year If I'm Jones I take him for all he's worth.  

If Willy is worth an NI and a 1st rounder Darian is worth a NI starter and a 1st and a 2nd rd pick. If I'm Jones I would ask for a NI starter and a 1st rounder for next year and a 1st rounder the year after.

StormRider1

I don't see Jones trading or loosing DD, we have no one for next year ready, and if you think, what happened to Mccallum years ago was bad, ... Jones looses DD and he will get run out of the province! JMO

Taleback

Not sure on Durants' mindset for the next couple years. If I'm Jones I offer Durant a legit 3rd, or 4th best Q.B. salary to extend. If that's not going to make it work for Durant then find out what the Esks want for  Franklin and go get as close to that as you can from eighther the Argos or Montreal this week, fill in the difference, and move on.

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "depopulationINC"
Quote from: "JimmytheGreek "
By the sounds of it Ray could be done for the season with a broken rib. If that is the case then what does Barker do? Speculation of Willy to the Argos from lawless but also a possibility of Glenn.What about Durant now or even in the off season.?  Would Jones jump off that ledge in thinking not being able to sign Darian so just pull the trigger now?

Having said that Jones did say that he wanted to start talks with Darian well before the season ended.

The reality is though with Jones you never know, but man I would not want to be in his shoes if he did it. This could get interesting to say the least.


Honestly...have a good sitdown and feel it out.  If it sounds like the sides are not close to terms then lay it out there and say "this is realistically what we can offer" if DD is not interested in that...then yes...absolutely move him.  I am hoping DD stays...I hope he retires a Rider...but the reality is that if it is not sounding like terms will come to be easily then you have to take what you have to take a good offer.  The reality is that even if DD sticks around they need to leave room in his contract to start bringing along the next guy...and that means leaving some bonus structure room so that they can balance the contracts...DD may not go for that.  I think that they want him for 400...he was making 510 and went to 450....I tend to think that they can make a deal somewhere between those numbers....that might mean giving him cash up front...which sucks.  Cash up front is "ok" if you get a discount or it tips a bidding war....not so much if it is retaining an existing vet, paying them top in their spot and there in not getting a discount for the cash up front.  

Now is not a good time to be negotiating a contract for either side...the team is not winning...bad for DD....most attention is on NFL cuts at the moment...bad for the club....but the wise move is talking it out and coming to a tentative deal or knowing that it might be time to pick up that phone.

I seriously can't imagine Durant staying for even less then he is getting this year. Why would he? He has shown he is healthy and lets face it, without Durant this team is going to suck not just this year but probably the next two years after. Think fans are going  to sit for that? New stadium or not after next season that means squat. No Darian has not been lights out great but he has also had no protection almost all season too. Anyone think Bridge or Franklin is going to step in next year and all of a sudden the teams starts winning under the same circumstances? I sure the hell don't.  

I would pay him the same base as this year, pay him a 50k signing bonus that could  be paid still this season. Give him an incentive bonus of 25 k if he meets realistic goals, and a 3 year deal. That would mean if they paid the signing bonus this year then it's off the books  cap wise for next season. So a base of 450k and potential to go to 475k if he meets the incentive bonus requirements. Riders get the known and proven starter. Darian gets a fair price with potential to pad it if he plays really good.

If Jones thinks  Durant is going to take a bath just because he wants to stay then that is a very huge mistake. I also think if he is betting the farm on getting Franklin and he is going to step right in and roll like Bo did, I think he will be in for a big disappointment and down the road after next season. You simply do not throw away a proven quality qb and not put your job on the line.

Now yes Darian has to be reasonable but I doubt that is an issue as he has just came out publicly again and stated he wants to stay here so he realizes he can't  ask for an unrealistic price and do that. The figures I tossed out I think would be a fair deal for both sides.

Taleback

This is pretty much week one of training camp 2017. If Durant is not committed then move on with Franklin and give him 6 or 7 games this year as basically preseason + 2 more next year to get his shi t together.

JimmytheGreek

Quote from: "Taleback"
This is pretty much week one of training camp 2017. If Durant is not committed then move on with Franklin and give him 6 or 7 games this year as basically preseason + 2 more next year to get his shi t together.

What indications do you have that Darian doesn't want  to stay?  Here is an article from yesterday that indicates pretty strongly that he does. https://t.co/QpRA1WQfUz

Yes Darian wants to stay but he isn't going to get hosed to do it and he shouldn't have to either.  If Jones takes an approach that he thinks he can hold Darian for ransom he is  even a bigger fool then he has shown so far.  If Darain goes to FA then I could easily see Winnipeg, Toronto and quite possibly the  Al's all going after him pretty aggressively.

My reason for stating this is if Nichols  starts to falter or gets dinged up do you think Willy is the answer? Winnipeg obviously don't or why dangle him? Walters may need to make a big splash to keep his job if the bombers falter again due to qb issues. Toronto will certainly be interested as they love the known vet starter and Darian certainly fits that bill.
Montreal? Well Glenn is out and anyone think Cato is all that? Again Popp is not exactly in great shape either holding on to his job but to sign Darian and have him and Anthony work as a team? Pretty fricken appealing if you ask me.

So again if Jones thinks he has Darian over the barrel then he is  going to be in for a very rude surprise I feel.

Taleback

"Jimmy the Greek wrote"  What indications do you have that Darian doesn't want to stay?

Nowhere did I say Durant doesn't want to stay All I am saying is get this negotiation going yesterday and if the 2 sides aren't going to be able to work it out then move on already. Would be a devastating loss to play out this lost season with him and then get nothing in return. That would hold this team back many more years than accepting the fact that Durant is not going to sign for Jones's final offer, and I would put that on Jones and not Durant, as Durant has proven he is not greedy or selfish when it comes to contracts, but from what I've seen of Jones's G.M. abilities this scenario would hardly be surprising.

JimmytheGreek

Misunderstood you when you said " If Durant is not committed then move on with Franklin "  I took that as you saying Darian didn't sound like he wanted to stick around. I agree though I think Darian will be reasonable and if this falls apart it most likely will be on Jones and a low ball offer.

I just feel that Darian gives the team the best chance of winning in the near future especially with all the other changes to the team. Having a reliable qb  at least gives them a solid foundation to build with. Who knows what Franklin would give them but even if he is good it will take at least  half a season for him to get any real chemistry with the offense.

After what we have gone through this year do we want to start another season possibly  1-9 ? I can't see too many fans being thrilled with that thought. Even if we had only a couple of wins by mid season then that still probably means yet another year and no playoffs. No Durant doesn't guarantee wins either but I think he is probably more of a guarantee then a raw rookie which is exactly what Franklin is. Now I'm not saying Franklin may not be good but that of course is issue. Since he has only seen limited action it is pretty hard to evaluate him on that. look at Willy and all  the gnashing of teeth that we let him go and kept Darian. Winnipeg paid him big bucks especially for an unknown and now they are regretting it. Anyone think that Drew would have been able to take the heat of being the starter here? I sure don't and that is another thing to consider about Franklin. Will he be able to stand the pressure of being under a microscope and all the criticism that we know goes with being a Rider and  when you play bad. Darian has had some issues with it in the past but  now knows how to deal with it. Does Franklin?

 Lets be honest here we treat good players like Gods and they get the rewards that go along with it, but we are also quick to cast stones at players that struggle. It takes a special type of player to deal with that kind of situation. Darain now knows how but would a rookie qb? I wouldn't think so, and he could fold like a Tino or like a Smith or like how many other qb's have we chewed up and spitted out. Face the fact here and playing here is not like playing in Toronto or BC or a few other teams. Here your either a star or a bum and that can change from week to week.  In a place like Toronto  after the game you could easily blend into a crowd at a bar or a restaurant but here someone is going to recognize you most likely and if you played bad there a plenty that wouldn't hesitate to shout at you that you suck. Either that or if you played good they would hassle you for a picture or an autograph. I'm not saying all fans would  do either but again there is quite a few that would. For instance after the labor day game I heard that Crapigna  had family at the game and they were wearing his jersey of course. A couple of morons decided to go up to them after the game and voice their displeasure with how the kid played. Yes while it was only a couple of them still it is an example of what I'm talking about. Mean while I guess on the phone in after the game show some guy was upset because Darian didn't come out and sign autographs but instead slipped away even though they had fan appreciation day the day before. I guess my point is it isn't easy being green and some can handle what goes along with it and others can't. Darian can but can Franklin too?

Taleback

I agree. Durant is the top or damn close to it in the league. If Jones doesn't think he can win with Durant then he can't win period. But we all know Jones and logic are not always in the same ball park. He better give him what he wants and proceed from there. And having it happen yesterday would be logical also.

ed ohmnes

I couldn't have said it better,  what's the hold up, they should be talking to Durant about an extension now.

GC Bound

Well as this dismal season grows old, one can't help but get concerned about the future of DD in Saskatchewan.
I would not have thought about it this way earlier in the season, but now that the season is unsalvageable, I begin to think that Durant's future as a Rider is extremely questionable......not because he's not a Premier QB in this league because in my books he's one of the best, if not at the top!
I just get this feeling now, given Jones commitment to "Building For The Future" that if Jones can get great value for DD (in personal that will strengthen "his team") next season and the future, I'm sad to say I think he gives the big guy up.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong! :cowboy:

StormRider1

Quote from: "GC Bound"
Well as this dismal season grows old, one can't help but get concerned about the future of DD in Saskatchewan.
I would not have thought about it this way earlier in the season, but now that the season is unsalvageable, I begin to think that Durant's future as a Rider is extremely questionable......not because he's not a Premier QB in this league because in my books he's one of the best, if not at the top!
I just get this feeling now, given Jones commitment to "Building For The Future" that if Jones can get great value for DD (in personal that will strengthen "his team") next season and the future, I'm sad to say I think he gives the big guy up.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong! :cowboy:

Me to, and if Jones did, the fans would run him out of dodge I am sure

nythril

I would like to hear what DD wants. This team is a few years at best from being a contender and I think Darian has earned the right to chose to stay for the rebuild or get one last shot at a grey cup with a contender.

So long as it is his choice and not Jones ..... I'd support moving him if it's his request. If Darian wants to stay then he has earned that right and certainly is playing stronger each game. Darian is not the cause of the teams probless or losses.
 


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