Killer91

Quote from: "my home team"
"from CFL.ca....I'd say it was a bail out...
"The 27-year-old pivot spent the majority of the season on the Tiger-Cats’ practice roster before being forced into action late in the year.  He started both of Hamilton’s playoff games, winning the Eastern Semi-Final as his underdog ‘Cats upset the rival Toronto Argonauts"

And at no point in the quote does it indicate that Masoli was "bailing out his coach"

His start was due to injuries to Collaros and Mathews according to CFL.CA

The playoff win was heady indeed for Masoli, who began the season fourth on Hamilton’s depth chart and spent time on the practice roster. He was the club’s fourth different starter this year and was under centre with incumbent Zach Collaros (knee) and backup Jeff Mathews (concussion) out.


Austin had no choice but to start him.

Even had to take out Masoli for a couple of offensive series in that same game...once again ...CFL.CA


"We just wanted to get Masoli out of the game … and talk through what we were going to do moving forward, just settle him down a bit," said Hamilton head coach/GM Kent Austin.


Don't misunderstand me. Jeremiah Masoli, I thought, played a remarkable playoff run and has proven since that he can be a starter in this league, but like every other player in a backup role, it's his RESPONSIBILITY to be ready and move into THE position when required.

You know...."Next man up".

I said he bailed out his coach.
That is how badly he mis judged Masoli. Who walks in off the practice roster to almost beating Ottawa in Ottawa in the EF? Austin should thank the Lord this guy was around and could go in and do what he did after everyone ahead of him looked terrible or got hurt.   Did you see the guys Austin played ahead of Masoli? Again, Im saying he has earned a shot at giving this offence a spark.

ExPat

I vote with my home team.  A backup stepping in to replace a starter and doing well, in his third year with the team, is not a "bail out".  No matter how many times you repeat it, and no matter where he started on the depth chart.

It would be even less of a "bail out" this year when he's #2 on the depth chart.

A bail out would be Edmonton trading us James Franklin out of pity in October for future considerations.

If anything, Masoli bailed himself out of obscurity.  Without those games in late 2015 he's probably out of football by now.

Count Floyd

Quote from: "ExPat"
A bail out would be Edmonton trading us James Franklin out of pity in October for future considerations..

It's possible that Jason Maas loves Hamilton that much to do that, isn't it?  :P

my home team

Quote from: "Killer91"
Quote from: "my home team"
"from CFL.ca....I'd say it was a bail out...
"The 27-year-old pivot spent the majority of the season on the Tiger-Cats’ practice roster before being forced into action late in the year.  He started both of Hamilton’s playoff games, winning the Eastern Semi-Final as his underdog ‘Cats upset the rival Toronto Argonauts"

And at no point in the quote does it indicate that Masoli was "bailing out his coach"

His start was due to injuries to Collaros and Mathews according to CFL.CA

The playoff win was heady indeed for Masoli, who began the season fourth on Hamilton’s depth chart and spent time on the practice roster. He was the club’s fourth different starter this year and was under centre with incumbent Zach Collaros (knee) and backup Jeff Mathews (concussion) out.


Austin had no choice but to start him.

Even had to take out Masoli for a couple of offensive series in that same game...once again ...CFL.CA


"We just wanted to get Masoli out of the game … and talk through what we were going to do moving forward, just settle him down a bit," said Hamilton head coach/GM Kent Austin.


Don't misunderstand me. Jeremiah Masoli, I thought, played a remarkable playoff run and has proven since that he can be a starter in this league, but like every other player in a backup role, it's his RESPONSIBILITY to be ready and move into THE position when required.

You know...."Next man up".

I said he bailed out his coach.
That is how badly he mis judged Masoli. Who walks in off the practice roster to almost beating Ottawa in Ottawa in the EF? Austin should thank the Lord this guy was around and could go in and do what he did after everyone ahead of him looked terrible or got hurt.   Did you see the guys Austin played ahead of Masoli? Again, Im saying he has earned a shot at giving this offence a spark.

I'm not suggesting that Masoli didn't deserve it.

As effective as Collaros has been up to that point, you would start the backup ahead of him if he were NOT injured??? Remember,  Zach was lighting up the league in first half of the 2015 schedule and was the favourite to take the MOP award, until his season ending injury.

If Kent Austin thought that Masoli could not cut it, he would have been released long before this opportunity came up, so the coach did have faith in him.

Masoli resigned with the Tiger cats in new year following this experience, so if he felt he was so unfairly treated, he had a chance to go elsewhere.

Instead of talking them down, how about giving the coaching staff and his teammates credit in assisting to ready Masoli for his break through moment.

Slomojo2005

Quote from: "Tipper"
8)  With Collaros making over $500,000 per year, there is no way that he will be standing on the sidelines to start any game
     
       unless he is injured !!

If the solution is in fact starting Masoli with Collaros on sideline, it is immaterial that $500k is just watching!  The money is spent. Whether Collaros plays or not is not the important thing. Itz about performance.  The $ are spent, water under the bridge!

Killer91

Quote from: "my home team"
Quote from: "Killer91"
Quote from: "my home team"
"from CFL.ca....I'd say it was a bail out...
"The 27-year-old pivot spent the majority of the season on the Tiger-Cats’ practice roster before being forced into action late in the year.  He started both of Hamilton’s playoff games, winning the Eastern Semi-Final as his underdog ‘Cats upset the rival Toronto Argonauts"

And at no point in the quote does it indicate that Masoli was "bailing out his coach"

His start was due to injuries to Collaros and Mathews according to CFL.CA

The playoff win was heady indeed for Masoli, who began the season fourth on Hamilton’s depth chart and spent time on the practice roster. He was the club’s fourth different starter this year and was under centre with incumbent Zach Collaros (knee) and backup Jeff Mathews (concussion) out.


Austin had no choice but to start him.

Even had to take out Masoli for a couple of offensive series in that same game...once again ...CFL.CA


"We just wanted to get Masoli out of the game … and talk through what we were going to do moving forward, just settle him down a bit," said Hamilton head coach/GM Kent Austin.


Don't misunderstand me. Jeremiah Masoli, I thought, played a remarkable playoff run and has proven since that he can be a starter in this league, but like every other player in a backup role, it's his RESPONSIBILITY to be ready and move into THE position when required.

You know...."Next man up".

I said he bailed out his coach.
That is how badly he mis judged Masoli. Who walks in off the practice roster to almost beating Ottawa in Ottawa in the EF? Austin should thank the Lord this guy was around and could go in and do what he did after everyone ahead of him looked terrible or got hurt.   Did you see the guys Austin played ahead of Masoli? Again, Im saying he has earned a shot at giving this offence a spark.

I'm not suggesting that Masoli didn't deserve it.

As effective as Collaros has been up to that point, you would start the backup ahead of him if he were NOT injured??? Remember,  Zach was lighting up the league in first half of the 2015 schedule and was the favourite to take the MOP award, until his season ending injury.

If Kent Austin thought that Masoli could not cut it, he would have been released long before this opportunity came up, so the coach did have faith in him.

Masoli resigned with the Tiger cats in new year following this experience, so if he felt he was so unfairly treated, he had a chance to go elsewhere.

Instead of talking them down, how about giving the coaching staff and his teammates credit in assisting to ready Masoli for his break through moment.

I'm pretty sure being fourth on the depth charts and being on the practice roster is not a lot of preparation to play in the CFL.  He deserves some playing time as he has earned it.  All Austin's eggs are in Collaro's basket so either he is a genious for keeping Masoli hidden on the Practice Roster or crap lucky he was good enough to step up when Collaros went down and all others failed in front of him.  In my opinion I think he was very fortunate to have Masoli step in and perform to the level he did in his opportunities to play out of necessity not Austin's choice.

I'm not saying it's realistic for him to start Friday but he needs some plays and if we are not winning at half, he needs to get the second half or at least the fourth quarter as I suspect we will be in that position against B.C...for some reason we don't play good against them in the best of times.

my home team

"I'm pretty sure being fourth on the depth charts and being on the practice roster is not a lot of preparation to play in the CFL. He deserves some playing time as he has earned it. All Austin's eggs are in Collaro's basket so either he is a genious for keeping Masoli hidden on the Practice Roster or crap lucky he was good enough to step up when Collaros went down and all others failed in front of him. In my opinion I think he was very fortunate to have Masoli step in and perform to the level he did in his opportunities to play out of necessity not Austin's choice.

I'm not saying it's realistic for him to start Friday but he needs some plays and if we are not winning at half, he needs to get the second half or at least the fourth quarter as I suspect we will be in that position against B.C...for some reason we don't play good against them in the best of times."



There's an old adage that goes...

"the most popular player on the team, in the eyes of the fans, is the backup quarterback."


Almost any coach in professional football puts his eggs in the starter's basket. That's why one of them is named the starter. His ability, leadership, experience and results say so.

The players also need to know who their leader is on the field.

"Crap lucky" would be if Kent Austin was unkowing of Masoli's talent. He coaches the quarterbacks and thus is VERY AWARE of his skills and limitations. And since Kent is able to observe him up close every day, and with previous winning expertise in the position himself has a more detailed and thorough understanding than you or I ever could.

ANY coach would be fortunate to have his backup quarterback perform at the level that Jeremiah Masoli did.

Collaros and Mathews were both injured and unavailable, as I pointed out earlier, and as you stated, Masoli was 4th in line. Therefore, there was no one in front of him "to fail".

If you don't like Kent Austin, then say so.

Just don't hide your prejudice behind insults.

my home team

"I'm not saying it's realistic for him to start Friday but he needs some plays and if we are not winning at half, he needs to get the second half or at least the fourth quarter as I suspect we will be in that position against B.C...for some reason we don't play good against them in the best of times."


If they were playing exhibition games or this were the end of the regular season with the team out of the playoffs, then by all means give the backups some playing time. See how they have progressed, or not, looking toward next year.

We are only a quarter way through the schedule. Perhaps, you enjoy experimentation. Most of the other fans who have paid to be there want to see wins.

You won't get there by changing quarterbacks and sitting your starter every time things get tough.

Besides,  if "we don't play good against them in the best of times", how is that the fault of your starting quarterback. Don't forget there are 12  of your players on the field.

Crash

The issues with this team stretch far beyond the QB play.

Here are my observations after 2 weeks:

- Receivers are nowhere near open, balls being thrown to guys that are covered.
- QB running for his life with zero time to throw.
- ineffective running game
- Opponents receivers wide open at times
- Blitz way too much (Got pressure on Ray, none on Glenn)
- Return game is non existent

For years we wanted a stable organization, we finally have it and now people want Austin gone. Makes no sense to me.

The biggest question I have is where we sit with regards to the salary cap compared to other teams. Our only big offseason signing has yet to play for us. (and our biggest re-sign as well). Problem is neither of them play offence.
It just seems other teams sign big name players and we don't, our attempt last year (Owens) worked great until he was hurt, again.

Im going to let the professionals decide the best course, benching the QB and firing the coach are the oldest and most shallow solutions in the book, and in all honesty neither of them ever work.

DogsFan

Quote from: "Killer91"
I said he bailed out his coach.
That is how badly he mis judged Masoli. Who walks in off the practice roster to almost beating Ottawa in Ottawa in the EF? Austin should thank the Lord this guy was around and could go in and do what he did after everyone ahead of him looked terrible or got hurt.   Did you see the guys Austin played ahead of Masoli? Again, Im saying he has earned a shot at giving this offence a spark.

Revisionist history is strong with this one. That season, Masoli was absolutely terrible in the lead up to the EF. He lost his spot, and was eventually relegated to the PR. However, Austin had faith in him and refused to let him go, even extending him the previous summer. He was an interception and fumble machine. Remember when he fumbled at the opponents goal line and the Stamps (I believe?) took it all the way to score?

Yeah. So much for Masoli bailing Austin out.

Killer91

I love Austin. I think he was great and is great.
I don't hate Austin. He's been great for the team and very entertaining.
He established a great organization that peaked in 2014 and 2015.  Collaros was our man unfortunately he didn't win either of those Grey Cups nor did Burris in 2013.
Austin needed to move upstairs gradually and let Tillman, Condell/Ptasek, Steinhauer etc grow with the team like he let Collaros grow with the team.  Unfortunately, the organization has regressed.  These guys left with exception of Tillman probably due to lack of opportunity here.  (Ptazek is here and has called one game as OC).

Unfortunately it's too late to change things and now... Collaros is not what he used to be. Austin's fate is in Collaros and this team.  Collaros as the starter and I don't think he will regain his old form.  Hesitant to run, weak arm, lack of creativity.

My opinion is they aren't going to be any better in the next few weeks and their best chance to win is with Masoli and salvage this season or we can continue on our current path that we are headed down, be patient with Austin and hope what happened this year and the end of last year changes.

Killer91

Quote from: "DogsFan"
Quote from: "Killer91"
I said he bailed out his coach.
That is how badly he mis judged Masoli. Who walks in off the practice roster to almost beating Ottawa in Ottawa in the EF? Austin should thank the Lord this guy was around and could go in and do what he did after everyone ahead of him looked terrible or got hurt.   Did you see the guys Austin played ahead of Masoli? Again, Im saying he has earned a shot at giving this offence a spark.

Revisionist history is strong with this one. That season, Masoli was absolutely terrible in the lead up to the EF. He lost his spot, and was eventually relegated to the PR. However, Austin had faith in him and refused to let him go, even extending him the previous summer. He was an interception and fumble machine. Remember when he fumbled at the opponents goal line and the Stamps (I believe?) took it all the way to score?

Yeah. So much for Masoli bailing Austin out.

Masoli did suck on the short yardage team but he has improved in that department this year - looked solid so far.   (that's a whole other conversation, I think their is a skill/knack/art to that and some guys don't have it - he did not).  I'm pretty sure he cleaned that up though...he does throw interceptions usually trying to make things happen and give us hope.  Standing in the pocket getting sacked all day because Taker is covered eight yards down field isn't  much better.

my home team

Quote from: "Killer91"
I love Austin. I think he was great and is great.
I don't hate Austin. He's been great for the team and very entertaining.
He established a great organization that peaked in 2014 and 2015.  Collaros was our man unfortunately he didn't win either of those Grey Cups nor did Burris in 2013.
Austin needed to move upstairs gradually and let Tillman, Condell/Ptasek, Steinhauer etc grow with the team like he let Collaros grow with the team.  Unfortunately, the organization has regressed.  These guys left with exception of Tillman probably due to lack of opportunity here.  (Ptazek is here and has called one game as OC).

Unfortunately it's too late to change things and now... Collaros is not what he used to be. Austin's fate is in Collaros and this team.  Collaros as the starter and I don't think he will regain his old form.  Hesitant to run, weak arm, lack of creativity.

My opinion is they aren't going to be any better in the next few weeks and their best chance to win is with Masoli and salvage this season or we can continue on our current path that we are headed down, be patient with Austin and hope what happened this year and the end of last year changes.


We don't know what the motivation was for these people to go elsewhere, and may never know.

Again, we have no idea how many games, if any, Stefan Ptaszek has called.

Perhaps, Collaros has been instructed to stay in the pocket to avoid the injuries he received when he left it. As far as the creativity he lacks, that may be because of the playbook and the OC.

All of this is speculation on your part. None of it factual.

But from this framework of guessing, you want us to believe that Collaros is past his prime and Kent Austin should be gone as a head coach.

And our ONLY salvation is to have Jeremiah Masoli as our starting quarterback.

Killer91

Quote from: "my home team"
Quote from: "Killer91"
I love Austin. I think he was great and is great.
I don't hate Austin. He's been great for the team and very entertaining.
He established a great organization that peaked in 2014 and 2015.  Collaros was our man unfortunately he didn't win either of those Grey Cups nor did Burris in 2013.
Austin needed to move upstairs gradually and let Tillman, Condell/Ptasek, Steinhauer etc grow with the team like he let Collaros grow with the team.  Unfortunately, the organization has regressed.  These guys left with exception of Tillman probably due to lack of opportunity here.  (Ptazek is here and has called one game as OC).

Unfortunately it's too late to change things and now... Collaros is not what he used to be. Austin's fate is in Collaros and this team.  Collaros as the starter and I don't think he will regain his old form.  Hesitant to run, weak arm, lack of creativity.

My opinion is they aren't going to be any better in the next few weeks and their best chance to win is with Masoli and salvage this season or we can continue on our current path that we are headed down, be patient with Austin and hope what happened this year and the end of last year changes.


We don't know what the motivation was for these people to go elsewhere, and may never know.

Again, we have no idea how many games, if any, Stefan Ptaszek has called.

Perhaps, Collaros has been instructed to stay in the pocket to avoid the injuries he received when he left it. As far as the creativity he lacks, that may be because of the playbook and the OC.

All of this is speculation on your part. None of it factual.

But from this framework of guessing, you want us to believe that Collaros is past his prime and Kent Austin should be gone as a head coach.

And our ONLY salvation is to have Jeremiah Masoli as our starting quarterback.

Correct, this is all my opinion.     This is a forum for opinions and discussions like we are having.

Yes, I believe Collaros is not capable of scrapping out wins right now, he never had a great arm and is now less mobile and isn't showing too many signs of brilliance like he has in the past without a great supporting cast.  Yes, to make the best of the current offence and improve, I think we have a better shot with Masoli in there than Collaros right now as he is much more versatile which may give us some spark and take pressure off the o line.  As far as Austin, I think he should have went upstairs and left the coaching to some of senior coaching prospects he had like Steinaur and Condell.  That is water under the bridge. It's his show and our record will dictate what happens to him over the next 6 weeks or so.

seamack3

Couldn't agree more, Killer91.
 


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