CatsFaninOttawa

As stated before, I support the import rules as they exist, as in I don't think the maximum number of imports should be increased, especially for the starters, where any increase would almost eliminate non-imports from the skill positions, relegating them almost exclusively to the o- and d-lines.

That's not to say that the rules can't be improved. I have suggested these adjustments to the rules before, but figured I would post them again, this time in a thread dedicated to the import rules.

Today, the quarterbacks are excluded from the import rules. The reason behind this exclusion, if I remember correctly, was to allow teams to have a starting non-import quarterback and not have to have a second non-import quarterback to replace him if he got hurt or was having a bad game. Unfortunately, the rule ended up having the opposite effect, as teams didn't benefit from his non-import status. The rule change I would like to see is to exclude the quarterbacks from the starter count, which addresses the original problem, but still count them as non-imports in the 42-man roster. Leave the import maximum to 22 (the same as it is now, if you include the three quarterbacks), and let the teams decide where to use them.

The other change I would like to see is to give special status to long-time CFL imports. Import players who have been in the league for seven years, say, would qualify as naturalized imports. Reduce the maximum number of imports to 20 (including QBs, as per the above change), but allow up to three naturalized imports to be included as non-imports. This actually increases the number of imports on the team, but with players who have been in the league for years. In addition, the cut-off for naturalized status would be lower, say four or five years, if a player has been on the same team the whole time. This second part would encourage teams to hold onto their marquis players, as they would be more valuable to that team and command higher salary. This would not affect their status as import starters; the seven non-imports would still need to be true non-imports.

Earl

Excellent read catsfan.  Any rule that should make it more difficult for a talent like Kyle Quinlan to get a true legitimate shot at qb in the CFL should be abolished asap, if that is possible.  Hardly likely though. :?

And imagine if there was a "system" of anybody can play regardless?  Ah yes, the Blue Jay "token Canadian" to appease those sorts and sell and extra 1000 tickets a game.  Please, never make it so we have to say a token Canadian or so in the CFL per team to "make it look good" and sell a few more seats.  Please.  Keep it or expand on a system that makes gm's and coaches really think about how to best utilize non-imports to win a Grey Cup.

It's the Canadian Football League, not the National ... or Queen's Plate or Major...   it's the Canadian Football League.  One of a kind really.  Where we don't have to make excuses to have 7 Canadian starters and an import rule as it is.   :thup:

No excuses.  Take it or leave Bruce Dowbiggan. And if you leave it, so be it.
Anywhere is the centre of the world - Black Elk

PiCat

Quote from: "Earl"
Excellent read catsfan.  Any rule that should make it more difficult for a talent like Kyle Quinlan to get a true legitimate shot at qb in the CFL should be abolished asap, if that is possible.  Hardly likely though. :?

If the exemption wasn't always there and it's doing the opposite of what it was intended to do, then that should be enough of an argument to convince the people who make the rules to eliminate it, shouldn't it?  At the very least, try something else.
Willie, the Canadians are over-stimulated. Remove all the tasty cheese from the grocery stores.

ronfromtigertown

Quote from: "CatsFaninOttawa"
As stated before, I support the import rules as they exist, as in I don't think the maximum number of imports should be increased, especially for the starters, where any increase would almost eliminate non-imports from the skill positions, relegating them almost exclusively to the o- and d-lines.

That's not to say that the rules can't be improved. I have suggested these adjustments to the rules before, but figured I would post them again, this time in a thread dedicated to the import rules.

Today, the quarterbacks are excluded from the import rules. The reason behind this exclusion, if I remember correctly, was to allow teams to have a starting non-import quarterback and not have to have a second non-import quarterback to replace him if he got hurt or was having a bad game. Unfortunately, the rule ended up having the opposite effect, as teams didn't benefit from his non-import status. The rule change I would like to see is to exclude the quarterbacks from the starter count, which addresses the original problem, but still count them as non-imports in the 42-man roster. Leave the import maximum to 22 (the same as it is now, if you include the three quarterbacks), and let the teams decide where to use them.

If a Canadian QB has to be included in the 19 man non-import roster

that will result in one less Canadian "position" on the roster, CFiO.

I want no rule that results in the loss of Canadian player's job.

Quote
The other change I would like to see is to give special status to long-time CFL imports.Import players who have been in the league for seven years, say, would qualify as naturalized imports. Reduce the maximum number of imports to 20 (including QBs, as per the above change), but allow up to three naturalized imports to be included as non-imports. This actually increases the number of imports on the team, but with players who have been in the league for years. In addition, the cut-off for naturalized status would be lower, say four or five years, if a player has been on the same team the whole time. This second part would encourage teams to hold onto their marquis players, as they would be more valuable to that team and command higher salary. This would not affect their status as import starters; the seven non-imports would still need to be true non-imports.

That was a good policy to upgrade CFL talent when Canadian players weren't as well trained. Not anymore.

I don't like the definition of what a non-import is either.

It allows players like Ben Cahoon to classify as a non-import even though he only lived in Canada for a short while

while his parents served as missionaries here and every off season he went to Utah which has always been his home.
God grant me the serenity To accept the things I cannot change;
Courage to change the things I can; And wisdom to know the difference.
[/color] "

CatsFaninOttawa

Quote from: "ronfromtigertown"
Quote from: "CatsFaninOttawa"
The rule change I would like to see is to exclude the quarterbacks from the starter count,...but still count them as non-imports in the 42-man roster.
If a Canadian QB has to be included in the 19 man non-import roster that will result in one less Canadian "position" on the roster, CFiO. I want no rule that results in the loss of Canadian player's job.
I don't see how this results in fewer Canadians in the game. Under today's rules, a team may dress 3 QBs, import or not, plus at most 19 imports, leaving 20 spots guaranteed for non-imports. Under my proposed rule change, a team would still have to dress at least 20 non-imports. Same number of Canadians in the game as before, but some of them might actually be quarterbacks.

Actually, you are correct in a way. This year, with Sinopoli on the Calgary roster, there were actually 161 non-imports in the league. That would be reduced to 160 under my proposed rule, the number it is in most years. But I think that one spot sacrificed is worth it if it encourages more teams to add a Canadian QB to their rosters.

mikem

Still like my idea the best.  Right now we have 160 starters, 8 teams times 20 NI.  So we stay with the status quo when Ottawa enters the league the total numbers stay the same.   But we would have 9 teams times 18 NIs therefore 162 total.
Total Canadians doesn't change, it actually goes up by 2.  Ottawa doesn't have to search for 20 starters from the CIS they could take 2 from each of the existing teams.  All teams can add two imports.

Grover

Quote from: "mikem"
Still like my idea the best.  Right now we have 160 starters, 8 teams times 20 NI.  So we stay with the status quo when Ottawa enters the league the total numbers stay the same.   But we would have 9 teams times 18 NIs therefore 162 total.
Total Canadians doesn't change, it actually goes up by 2.  Ottawa doesn't have to search for 20 starters from the CIS they could take 2 from each of the existing teams.  All teams can add two imports.

There is only a limited supply of quality positional Canadians.
Good Canadian players are not a dime a dozen.
There is a reason Ray Mariuz got lured back from retirement this season, there was nobody to fill a void because of injury.
If Ray had not come back we would have been in big trouble!
How easy will it be for the teams to replace Doug Brown, Angus Reid, Marwan Hage, Brent Johnson, Dave Stala, etc.,etc. when they retire.
We saw what happened to Montreal when Cahoon retired, Montreal looked more vulnerable.
IMHO the league should financially support the CIS programs(which they do NOT now) by paying for the players they draft from the CIS and in Andrew Harris's case to the junior league he developed in to strengthen the feeder system.
Stronger feeder program equals more prepared players for the pro league.
Until it is proven that the CIS can supply enough quality players then I would have to agree with Mikes post.
Keep the Canadian Content number in the league the same but spread out over more teams.

Thanks to @Doc_Dave for sig

Earl

I can live with that.  It is imperative for me that the Canadian draft remain relevant as a means to build a legitimate winner.  As well, should the CIS and junior programs continue to develop, ratio's should be discussed to include more Canadians if possible although even with this it will be difficult with the football factory down south which has 10 times our population and much more emphasis on football.  Sure it will always be difficult to replace all-stars like Brown etc. but that should be the goal, to try and find replacements.   Great players in any league are hard to find really.

 Also in Mariuz's case, he was someone who knew the plays and schemes and therefore you didn't have the learning curve and was right here locally available.

CatsFaninOttawa

Quote from: "mikem"
Still like my idea the best.  Right now we have 160 starters, 8 teams times 20 NI.  So we stay with the status quo when Ottawa enters the league the total numbers stay the same.   But we would have 9 teams times 18 NIs therefore 162 total.
Total Canadians doesn't change, it actually goes up by 2.  Ottawa doesn't have to search for 20 starters from the CIS they could take 2 from each of the existing teams.  All teams can add two imports.
I could actually live with lowering the number of non-imports on the roster like this, as long as the number of non-import starters is not lowered. Reducing that would have a significant impact on the number of skill position players in the league, as teams would be able to fill most of the requirement with linemen.

In fact, my second proposal, the introduction of the naturalized import, would have this effect if teams had enough long-time players. Maybe the league could introduce this at the same time?

Earl

as long as the number of non-import starters is not lowered

Very significant point that a Bruce Dowbiggan probably couldn't grasp.   :thup:

mikem

Quote from: "Earl"
as long as the number of non-import starters is not lowered

Very significant point that a Bruce Dowbiggan probably couldn't grasp.   :thup:

As someone said on another thread - he wishes there was someway to see "two decent RBs" in the backfield.  
I said there's an easy way to change that - right now we have 160 NI starters in the CFL.  In 2014 when Ottawa enters the league we could keep the NI starters at 160, but that would mean 18 NIs per team.    The people that love to see Canadians wouldn't see any change, still the same total number of Canadians in the league.   We would see more talented players and less of a strain on the salary cap.
Right now the teams are inflating salaries to try to attract the limited number of talented Canadians.  

I would rather have seen an exciting talented receiver out there rather than a guy like Mckay.  There's just not enough decent NI receivers out there.

I think that 160 Canadian starters is enough,  when Ottawa come in maintain the 160 they don't have to reduce it.  I think it will improve the league, improve the talent on the field and keep everyone happy.

Earl

Whatever mike but the minute the Canadian draft becomes unimportant or significantly less important to win a Grey Cup, that's the day I stop following this league.  When I want to watch the "best" or most "media celebrated" football players, I watch the NFL.  The CFL for me is a different viewing experience and different following experience in many respects. It's largely about Canadiana, once that is gone as an important ingredient, and not saying it will with your ideas, necessarily, then bye, bye.

CatsFaninOttawa

Quote from: "mikem"
Quote from: "Earl"
as long as the number of non-import starters is not lowered

Very significant point that a Bruce Dowbiggan probably couldn't grasp.   :thup:

As someone said on another thread - he wishes there was someway to see "two decent RBs" in the backfield.  
I said there's an easy way to change that - right now we have 160 NI starters in the CFL.  In 2014 when Ottawa enters the league we could keep the NI starters at 160, but that would mean 18 NIs per team.    The people that love to see Canadians wouldn't see any change, still the same total number of Canadians in the league.   We would see more talented players and less of a strain on the salary cap.
Right now the teams are inflating salaries to try to attract the limited number of talented Canadians.  

I would rather have seen an exciting talented receiver out there rather than a guy like Mckay.  There's just not enough decent NI receivers out there.

I think that 160 Canadian starters is enough,  when Ottawa come in maintain the 160 they don't have to reduce it.  I think it will improve the league, improve the talent on the field and keep everyone happy.

I wouldn't mind a reduction in the total NI roster spots to 18 per team, but dropping the number of NI starters below seven would be unacceptable, in my opinion. I think it would end up reducing the number of skills position Canadians, which to most fans are the visible players. And I don't think reducing the NI roster spots would result in a drop in NI salaries, as it's really the starters that command the inflated salaries that you're talking about, and really only the few skills position players at that.

In my opinion.

ronfromtigertown

If sports and fitness are worthwhile pursuits in the lives of our youth,
then everything should be done to get kids involved in playing sports.

With hockey and so many other competing sports activities to pursue,

we need even more Canadians at both non-finesse and finesse positions
in the CFL serving as role models to draw kids towards minor football.

For most kids, participating in a sport will be a valuable end in itself.

Some will grow up to make the CFL and some will even star in the CFL

P.S.

Something that is overlooked in this and other similar discussions is...

Canadian content in the CFL is a necessary ingredient

to maintain football in Canada at the grass roots level.

It's simple supply and demand...

If minor age level football doesn't grow and flourish

high school and university football won't be far behind.

stevehvh

I agree with you, Ron.

I don't want to prolong a debate that has gone on for a long time, in this thread and many others. Others can continue it at their leisure. Suffice it to say I support the NI ratio requirement and would either increase it, or else leave it the same but reduce the size of the rosters overall. Either way, I would prefer proportionately more Canadian content in the CFL, not less-- for the reasons you express here and for others I have mentioned along the way in this thread and previous ones.
"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."
- Hubert H. Humphrey
 


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