Makaveli

Why would a university cancel football?
There isn't a future in Volleyball, basketball, soccer or any women's sports yet almost all university's have those.
@mkemp31

Earl

Take away the ratio then just change to all American rules.   And that is what will happen and using seymour's logic, I am right on this.  :wink:

Now is that a "good" or "bad" thing to happen to the Canadian Football League?  If someone can say either way they are "right" in this being "good" or "bad", then they are very intelligent indeed and can predict the future as well.  :wink:

A sort of future or next goal for some university athletics is the Olympics or other international competitions I suppose.  :?
Anywhere is the centre of the world - Black Elk

Spinner

I did a poll a while ago asking if the peeps wanted change to the ratio or the status quo.
Last I checked it was 86% in favour of status quo.
I only made it a dual choice, because weasels would figure the figures with anything 3 or more options.
The peeps spoke.
I saw Andrew Grigg flatten DBs at TC repeatedly.
Hitch, Jesse,Stala, and the two Lee's in high school and CIS.
Philbrick with the sword of death.
Rocky, Wally, and Rommel too!
The game is good, hard, exciting,and most importantly, Canadian.
Our rules, our field, our players, our neighbours, and our balls. (teabagin' ya USA )

mikem

Quote from: "Earl"
Take away the ratio then just change to all American rules.   And that is what will happen and using seymour's logic, I am right on this.  :wink:

Now is that a "good" or "bad" thing to happen to the Canadian Football League?  If someone can say either way they are "right" in this being "good" or "bad", then they are very intelligent indeed and can predict the future as well.  :wink:

A sort of future or next goal for some university athletics is the Olympics or other international competitions I suppose.  :?

Why would you want to change our rules to American rules????  What makes our league unique is:

Only professional league with all Canadian cities;
3 Downs;
Wider longer field;
Two extra players on the field;
No fair catch;
Motion in the backfield;

All of the above make the CFL more exciting and more entertaining (in my opinion)
However, the Canadian content rule at 20 starters is the only rule that doesn't make the play on the field any more exciting and hinders the entertainment value.  
 
I don't understand why you would want to bring in American rules if we reduced the Canadian content.
As someone said above, the CIS basketball is quite exciting and we give scholarships to young guys coming out of high school to attend Canadian schools.  CIS basketball hasn't collapsed, If they want to play for the Raptors they are going to have to compete for the job.  Same with CIS soccer which is fairly huge now, more players and Canadian talent improving - no Canadian content in NASL but CIS has scholarships and does quite nicely.

Earl

Not saying I want to bring in American rules, quite the opposite.  Just saying for me if 95 percent of the players are American and being flown in left right and center with no draft, and no Canadian draft because that would be a joke, what's the use, just change the game to American rules and make it easier for them.  It's a done deal at that point, I know, again using seymours logic, that there will be a huge movement on part of the mainly American coaches as well to fully Americanize the Canadian Football League.

In your opinion it's simply entertainment value the CFL is,  you seem to suggest so why waste time then explaining and having the players learn the Canadian game if hardly any of them grew up with it if no import rule and therefore the players are almost all American? sarcasm

Really, get on with it with no import rule, I see no point in keeping any of the rules Canadian after that because it's a done deal anyways.
 :wink:

Earl

The other thing I thought about with no import rule, then you really are talking about teams having the token Canadian or two on the team to make it look good for marketing and that, have a couple Canucks on the team to sell a few more tickets.  Again it turns into a joke even though people will say "wow, a couple of Canadians made the team, good on them".  Now with about half the players and a true draft and what some 7 having to start, there are no token Canadians and you better build your team from some homegrown talent that grew up with the game or your chances of winning are less.  Far less of a joke IMHO.

Grover

Without the CFL Import rules IMHO the CIS and probably Highschool football programs would perish.
Most elite CIS players are playing to extend their careers in the CFL and perhaps get drafted by the NFL.
A CFL without Import rules would turn the CFL into a feeder league for the NFL, exactly like NFL Europe was.
The best players get plucked off your team and move up to the bigs for them to become backups.
To compare CIS football programs to other CIS sports such as volleyball, Basketball etc. is not even close.
The upkeep on the fields and Stadiums is very expensive compared to a multi-purpose Gym.
Uniforms, equipment, weightrooms, video-equipment, travel, meals, etc. for a 46 man roster for CIS Football is also expensive.

Thanks to @Doc_Dave for sig

Earl

Got a chuckle out of this about Scott Richmond of the Jays:

Making the case for Scott Richmond

Since the Blue Jays are "Canada's baseball team", there is an unwritten rule that there has to be a token Canadian on the team. With the departure of Matt Stairs, the Blue Jays are lacking in Canadian Content (Cancon for you media folks). Scott Richmond would probably fill those shoes very well. Although he might not be into hockey, I'm sure Scott could pick up the slack by playing some Roch Voisine and Rush in the Blue Jays clubhouse.

http://www.bluejayhunter.com/2009/01/ma ... hmond.html

Of course he doesn't play in the Canadian Football League, just for "Canada's baseball team" as the author writes.  :wink:

So did he get his chance for the "bigs" because he was Canadian or was he so much better than other guys vying for the position that he was the one?  Who knows, we'll never know.  But he does fill the "token Canadian" role and some will say that's why he got his chance over someone else.  I don't follow the Jays close enough to know the ins and outs of their farm system and such I'll admit.

seymour

Quote from: "Earl"
... I know, again using seymours logic, that there will be a huge movement on part of the mainly American coaches as well to fully Americanize the Canadian Football League.

Really, get on with it with no import rule, I see no point in keeping any of the rules Canadian after that because it's a done deal anyways.

Earl, your grasping at straws here. The league's rules are ultimately controlled by the Board of Governers, not the coaches or players. I believe the majority of coaches in this league are already American and I do not see any of them trying to "Americanize the Canadian Football League".
Every year, new imports come into the league and successfully adjust to the unique rules. The notion that the Board would scrap the CFL's unique rules to somehow "make it easier" for imports is absurd.

Earl

Absurd in your opinion, not mine, and both are strictly opinions.

stevehvh

Earl, I believe you are right and so is Grover.
"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."
- Hubert H. Humphrey

EastVanMark

Quote from: "Makaveli"
Its a stupid rule...
Most casual fans who watch the game don't even know about this rule. If you want to keep Canadians in the league thats fine but they should drop the number required by at least 5 or 6.

I'm with you. Keep the ratio but drop the numbers for the total for each individual team.  That way the collegiate draft stays relevant but you increase the competition for spots overall (both for Non Imports & Imports).

Grover

A good story from the Calgary Herald about the CIS as a Feeder system to the CFL and what they mean to each other.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/fee ... z1Wxq2MNle


Blake Nill faced a major hurdle this Canadian Interuniversity Sport season.

The University of Calgary Dinos football team needed to plug holes in his roster after graduating four talented players to the Canadian Football League — the most in one season during Nill’s five years as head coach.

The enviable issue was a big gain for the CFL — a trend that is increasingly apparent as more CIS players quickly graduate into prominent roles on CFL teams.

But it’s also an issue that Nill would like to see continue.

“I want to recruit kids who have the motivation to play at the next level,” the former CFL lineman-turned CIS coach was saying the other day at McMahon Stadium.

“I think they’re the kind of kids that will help you be successful as a team.

“And I think those are the kind of kids that are motivated to be successful, on and off the field, and eventually represent your program.”

Currently, 147 CIS graduates are competing among the 542 players and eight teams in the CFL.

And since Nill took over U of C’s football program in 2006, he has contributed nine of those players.

“When a young man comes up to me and says, ‘Coach, can you get me to the next level?’ ” he continued. “And, you know what? I can. If they have the God-given talent and the mental toughness, I think that we can prepare them for the next level.

“I think that’s becoming more and more the case with other schools, too.”

This past spring, 45 out of 53 of the participants at the CFL evaluation camp were out of CIS schools and 23 of the 26 CIS football programs were represented at the event. Then, at the 2011 CFL Canadian draft, 34 of the 47 selected players were from CIS schools. Not much has changed from a decade ago, when 29 of 48 prospects at the 2001 CFL draft were from CIS schools.

The telling stat, however, is only four CIS players — including Calgary Stampeder long snapper Randy Chevrier — were plucked in the first and second rounds back then. Eleven were taken in the first two rounds this year.

“In the past, for instance, in the first round you might have two or three CIS guys picked where the majority would have come from Canadian kids in the U.S,” Nill said.

“I think that’s changed. And I think it was reflected very evidently in this year’s draft.”

“But there’s no question that Canadian kids that remain in Canada are being looked at more favourably than in the past.”

Canadian Angus Reid, a centre for the B.C. Lions, was selected in that 2001 draft after playing for Simon Fraser University which, at that time, competed in the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics instead of the CIS.

He believes talent in Canada has risen greatly in the past 10 years.

“Yes, you are still seeing a lot of Canadians go down south but Canadian schools are doing a better job of keeping these athletes in Canada,” acknowledged Reid, who is into his 11th season in the CFL. “You’re seeing coaching getting better here. Programs, in general, are getting better.

“The issue used to be that the Canadians are SO far behind the Americans because they do SO much more down there. Football, basketball, whatever the sport may be — it engulfs them every day and they have the best training, best coaching year-round.

“They were so much more ahead of the Canadians and it wasn’t about being a better athlete, there was just so much more offered for them.

“Before, I think, they were deemed to be a lesser player if they came from a Canadian school and that image is slowly being erased.”

Of course, the Import Ratio rule in the CFL has always been present in committing the league to its Canadian fans. Each 42-man roster, 20 non-imports are required plus 19 imports

and three quarterbacks — which do not count toward their Canadians vs. Import Ratio.

But it’s the level of confidence in CIS programs that has changed.

“I think the CFL is just recognizing more that the athlete is much more professionally football ready coming out of a Canadian school than maybe they were in the past,” Reid added.

“I just think it’s a good thing. I think we are heading in the right direction. We have so many great athletes in this country and I think there are more opportunities for them to go further so they don’t get left behind.”

Player accountability is also playing a larger role in the development of athletes graduating to the CFL.

As more information becomes available and accessible, individuals can do a significant amount of preparation on their own by taking control of their strength and conditioning programs, nutrition and general health to take their football careers as far as they want to go.

Better coaches, including ones with CFL experience, are also a factor.

And as a result, the players are stronger, faster, more disciplined and better football players.

“It’s amazing how far university football has come and the progress that has been made,” said Edmonton Eskimos general manager Eric Tillman.

“The quality of coaching at a CIS level is at an all-time high. Players are coming into our league so much better prepared than they were. It’s a real credit to these coaches. The evolution of the CIS game certainly enhances the quality of our game.

“Blake Nill, for example, is so respected in the CFL fraternity and we know that kids coming out of his program are going to be well prepared to make the next step . . . you’ve seen coaching improvements across the country.”

And CIS players are getting to their destination faster. In the past, Tillman said, it used to take a few seasons of preparation. But now, after only a year or two, CIS players are making a significant impact.

Tillman also indicated the partnership with the CFL and TSN plays an impact in romanticizing the game for up-and-coming football stars.

“Canadian athletes are developing much faster,” he said. “And we’re getting so many good players coming out of the CIS levels now.

“The coaching has improved, you’re seeing improvement in facilities, training, there’s a much greater emphasis on nutrition, training 12 months of the year . . . there seems to be a stronger desire to make it to the CFL and a lot of that is the image on TSN because our league is operating at an all-time high.”

This season, the Hamilton Tiger-Cats employ the most CIS products with 24 on their roster, while the Saskatchewan Roughriders currently have 22 CIS players on their team plus four former local junior players.

“I don’t know whether it’s from the top-down but I know our interaction and relationship with all of the CFL teams has been far greater than it was before,” said University of Saskatchewan head coach Brian Towriss, who had four players at CFL training camps this spring and graduated two to CFL teams. “I think some of the great CFL teams in the ’80s and ’90s were the ones that did the best job of finding the best Canadians.

“And I think the CIS is producing better trained athletes all the time. . . . Most of the good CIS programs are approaching it on a year-round basis. Our kids get December off, really. And even then, they’re in the weight room.

“So, you’re seeing kids come out that are physically stronger, faster, and better.”

There are better relationships being cultivated between personnel in both leagues. A level of trust between them usually means good things for kids taking their game to the next level.

Coaches need to be able to believe they are getting honest evaluations of players, rather than people taking care of their own interests and needs.

Speaking personally, Nill feels he has a good relationship with most CFL teams. Throughout the year, he’ll field multiple calls to evaluate not only his own field of players, but kids in other programs.

“I also try to be a bit proactive with some kids,” he noted. “I try to help other kids out. I’ll be on my phone at least a couple times a month with (Stampeders Canadian scout) Brendan Mahoney . . . I’ll say, ‘Listen Brendan, you gotta see this kid.’ And I think it comes down to credibility as a coach.

“If you can prove you know what you are talking about and that you’re on the same page, the CFL teams are going to trust your opinion more and more.”

At an administrative level, the CFL and CIS have been working together in recent years to try to leverage their partnership.

For one, the CFL and the CIS are co-hosting the 2011 Grey Cup and the Vanier Cup in Vancouver. There are also CFL sponsored drug-testing of the top CIS prospects, education initiatives on concussion awareness and the East/West Bowl week, which is a one-stop showcase for CFL coaches to scout some of the top CIS players.

The natural partnership between the leagues is a win-win scenario, according to CIS executive director Marg McGregor.

“We’re both in the business of developing football in Canada so it makes sense to collaborate,” she said. “Now, it’s much more of a strategic and intentional relationship. It’s working really well in a number of different fronts.

“The quality of CIS football is getting better year after year.”

Earl

Thanks Grover for that article.  A lot of people here are neglecting the fact that the CIS is producing more and better players all the time which as definitely increased competition for positions at both the CIS and CFL levels.  Another issue people need to remember is it's not always that easy to get Americans to come up here to try the CFL and this puts a lot of pressure on CFL teams as well.  Even the Raptors and Blue Jays have that problem despite being able to pay the "big league" salaries.

Earl

Thinking about this a bit more and this might sound very strange and weird but the import rule is more important to me where you have around half the team made up of Canadians and 7 start and a meaningful Canadian draft than keeping the rest of the rules Canadian.  Meaning I could probably live with the Canadian Football League with these things even if it went to total American rules although don't get me wrong, I don't want that to happen.

Good thread, making me think about this more even though there are always threads like this that come up year after year.   :thup:
 


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