-Hammer-

would like to do that as well Hammer.

I said I would like to do that with NHL arenas but that gets expensive lol so far have been to 9 NHL arenas.

pretty sad when you can drive to Ottawa to watch the leafs play premium seats 2 tickets and hotel for 2 nights $ 586 same seats ACC $625 for two tickets. If I lived closer to Ottawa 2-3 hours drive would cheer for the sens.
The biggest problem is Sault Ste Marie. That's quite a haul (7 hours the short way through the US) and a round trip plane ride comes to around $300

danoc_86

maybe save that one for last lol, 

Hammertown Proud

The band you refer to I suspect is the Mulberry Street Porchin Band. They play on the porch of my friend Jo-anne's place the Friday night of Art Crawl each month spring through fall. Her husband is in the band.
Yep, that is exactly the band...as soon as you said the name I recognized it...

A perfect example why I love this city...a warm summer evening, meandering down James St, hearing good music in the distance, only to come across excellent live outdoor entertainment.

No neighbours complaining about the noise...instead they were all out enjoying the music as well.

The outdoor patio at the coffee house on the corner was packed, everyone listening to the music.

Tons of random people just walking up, catching a tune or two, and continuing on their way....

Yah, very scary place that area is ...

Grover

Bulldogs owner Andlauer wants a new Arena built(5k to10K seats), and is ready to buck in for it.

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story/7916253-new-hamilton-arena-in-bulldogs-owner-s-playbook/

he'd like to see a new 5,000-10,000-seat facility built somewhere within the city. He expects it would cost between $60 million and $100 million, depending on size and amenities.


"Obviously, cost and who bears the cost is going to be the central issue," Eisenberger says. "If Mr. Andlauer is prepared to finance something like that, that makes the conversation a lot easier."
While Andlauer says the city would likely have to be part of the project — whether that's all cash or a combination of cash and land is unclear — he's prepared to pay a significant portion of the cost out of his own pocket.
How much, exactly?
"I would jump in (with) whatever makes sense," he says.


Thanks to @Doc_Dave for sig

Lennywasout

Bulldogs owner Andlauer wants a new Arena built(5k to10K seats), and is ready to buck in for it.

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story/7916253-new-hamilton-arena-in-bulldogs-owner-s-playbook/

he'd like to see a new 5,000-10,000-seat facility built somewhere within the city. He expects it would cost between $60 million and $100 million, depending on size and amenities.


"Obviously, cost and who bears the cost is going to be the central issue," Eisenberger says. "If Mr. Andlauer is prepared to finance something like that, that makes the conversation a lot easier."
While Andlauer says the city would likely have to be part of the project — whether that's all cash or a combination of cash and land is unclear — he's prepared to pay a significant portion of the cost out of his own pocket.
How much, exactly?
"I would jump in (with) whatever makes sense," he says.
How about jumping in with $100 million

danoc_86

Would be great think 7000 seat stadium would be perfect. like the Aud  8)

-Hammer-

Would be great think 7000 seat stadium would be perfect. like the Aud  8)
Don't get me wrong, the Aud has great history and atmosphere, but it's less the perfect. That is unless you like tasting your knees, then it's fine. Anyways, as far as a new arena, there are only three locations I can see working.

The first is downtown over a parking lot. Wilson and John would be what I would be looking at. Downtown is gaining more density and having the Bulldogs downtown is an asset, and it's not that far getting off the York St exit. It should be an easy expropriation, removes more unsightly surface parking in favor of underground or putting in a parking plaza close by. 

The second is at McMaster if they are interesting in getting a CIS Hockey program and sharing space. That said, I can see them not proceeding down that road (Guelph doesn't after all), but it's a thought. It's probably the cheapest option though if you can sell it to Mac.

The third is Limeridge Mall. With Sears about to kick the can, you have a large store you could turn into an arena,(and parking lot you could expand into) and link your arena direct into the mall (like Guelph does). You also have lots of parking and a major highway close buy and a draw for the area. This however requires dealing with the Mall, more then the city who probably want to rent that space.

Anywhere else, I don't see it. Mountain Arena has always blocked expansion, Confederation Park is slated for a Bayfront Park like development, and there isn't space anywhere but the outskirts of the city, and we don't want the Bulldogs to play out of a Senator's like arena in the boonies.

oo DAWG oo

Go big....rip down copps rebuild right there. With the right design could be great for hockey and concerts . use existing equipment for ice surface put the money into the frills ..

And don't let any government entities oversee ANY of the construction

danoc_86

Couldn't agree more hammer about the aud.... but they had to work with what they had 14 mill reno project was really impressive built on top of the roof while hockey was being played with no delays like hamilton lol

The blue section is amazing big seats lots of leg room. ThatS why I choose blue section for my season tickets centre ice row 3..... wouldn't trade for any other section  8)

SteelCitySteve

Couldn't agree more hammer about the aud.... but they had to work with what they had 14 mill reno project was really impressive built on top of the roof while hockey was being played with no delays like hamilton lol

The blue section is amazing big seats lots of leg room. ThatS why I choose blue section for my season tickets centre ice row 3..... wouldn't trade for any other section  8)
It'll be downtown and likely be a reno of Copps.

1. The City wont put any money into a suburban location (limeridge) for the same reasons they wouldnt agree to THF being built in the burbs. Its backwards thinking, major civic assets belong in the downtown, not off a highway like they did in the 1970s.

2. Doubt you'll get those surface lots by John/Hughson. Privately owned, the owners have held out for years, even when downtown was a dump. Now that condos are going up everywhere, I'm sure they're looking to cash in. They'll get way more selling to condo developer vs. City/Bulldogs.

3. The Copps feasibility study that came out a few months back identified a partial reno as the 'cheap' option at about $60M, the same price Andleaur pegged to build the new rink. IF City money is to be involved I can only see it going towards renovating Copps as that is probably the cheapest option for the City. I belive that option also left the upper bowl seating intact, meaning we can still attract the larger events, and dare I say it, keep the NHL option open for when Betteman has to come begging for a relocation option for Carolina/ Islanders/ Florida/ Vegas/ Phoenix or maybe the Sens.

Grover

Wouldn't West Harbour be a great site for a 7,000 seat Arena?
The Property is already owned by the City, It would  cover up a large portion of the toxic contaminated soil with the building and parking lot and would be a key piece in the City's future plans to re-vitalizing that area.

SteelCitySteve

Wouldn't West Harbour be a great site for a 7,000 seat Arena?
The Property is already owned by the City, It would  cover up a large portion of the toxic contaminated soil with the building and parking lot and would be a key piece in the City's future plans to re-vitalizing that area.
It would be had the stadium been put there....would have created the whole entertainment district that was envisioned for the area. An arena on its own....not sure it works.........unless they build it as part of a new convention facility. Might even be able to to include the amphitheater that was going to be included.

-Hammer-

Couldn't agree more hammer about the aud.... but they had to work with what they had 14 mill reno project was really impressive built on top of the roof while hockey was being played with no delays like hamilton lol

The blue section is amazing big seats lots of leg room. ThatS why I choose blue section for my season tickets centre ice row 3..... wouldn't trade for any other section  8)
It'll be downtown and likely be a reno of Copps.

1. The City wont put any money into a suburban location (limeridge) for the same reasons they wouldnt agree to THF being built in the burbs. Its backwards thinking, major civic assets belong in the downtown, not off a highway like they did in the 1970s.

2. Doubt you'll get those surface lots by John/Hughson. Privately owned, the owners have held out for years, even when downtown was a dump. Now that condos are going up everywhere, I'm sure they're looking to cash in. They'll get way more selling to condo developer vs. City/Bulldogs.

3. The Copps feasibility study that came out a few months back identified a partial reno as the 'cheap' option at about $60M, the same price Andleaur pegged to build the new rink. IF City money is to be involved I can only see it going towards renovating Copps as that is probably the cheapest option for the City. I belive that option also left the upper bowl seating intact, meaning we can still attract the larger events, and dare I say it, keep the NHL option open for when Betteman has to come begging for a relocation option for Carolina/ Islanders/ Florida/ Vegas/ Phoenix or maybe the Sens.
I don't disagree about the first two points, but Limeridge isn't exactly the same as the rest of the mountain suburbs, and while yes it is just off the highway, it isn't exactly on the outskirts of the city either. There is some  density along that corridor of Mohawk Rd and really is the major retail center on the mountain. It's also very transit connected which most other locations on the mountain can't boast. One of the biggest complaints on the mountain is the lack of culture there, and putting the hockey team right in the middle of the commercial center might be what the doctor ordered. 

As far as Copps, I doubt Andlauer is going to sink any more of his money into Copps, and I don't blame him. He already put money into renovating the locker rooms and replacing the video boards, and the deficiencies with the building should be replaced by the city or the management co. However they won't because both are pinching pennies. He might use a move threat as leverage in a lease negotiation or to try to force their hand at a reno, but fundamentally he knows if he continues to play out of there, he will never develop the atmosphere he needs to attract fans and become financially viable or attract a Memorial Cup. 

As far as the West Harbour, it's not a bad idea, so long as you can get the higher levels of government to chip in for the millions in soil remediation needed. It's close to to GO line, which would benefit people coming from the corridor as well as fans from Niagara, Oshawa or Mississauga (if they stick around). That said, you lose a lot of the benefits of the West Harbour because of Winter. Bayfront Park doesn't see anywhere near the same level of use during the Winter months. That said, being able to have outdoor events in the giant outdoor rink that is Hamilton Harbor isn't a bad idea either.

SteelCitySteve

Couldn't agree more hammer about the aud.... but they had to work with what they had 14 mill reno project was really impressive built on top of the roof while hockey was being played with no delays like hamilton lol

The blue section is amazing big seats lots of leg room. ThatS why I choose blue section for my season tickets centre ice row 3..... wouldn't trade for any other section  8)
It'll be downtown and likely be a reno of Copps.

1. The City wont put any money into a suburban location (limeridge) for the same reasons they wouldnt agree to THF being built in the burbs. Its backwards thinking, major civic assets belong in the downtown, not off a highway like they did in the 1970s.

2. Doubt you'll get those surface lots by John/Hughson. Privately owned, the owners have held out for years, even when downtown was a dump. Now that condos are going up everywhere, I'm sure they're looking to cash in. They'll get way more selling to condo developer vs. City/Bulldogs.

3. The Copps feasibility study that came out a few months back identified a partial reno as the 'cheap' option at about $60M, the same price Andleaur pegged to build the new rink. IF City money is to be involved I can only see it going towards renovating Copps as that is probably the cheapest option for the City. I belive that option also left the upper bowl seating intact, meaning we can still attract the larger events, and dare I say it, keep the NHL option open for when Betteman has to come begging for a relocation option for Carolina/ Islanders/ Florida/ Vegas/ Phoenix or maybe the Sens.
I don't disagree about the first two points, but Limeridge isn't exactly the same as the rest of the mountain suburbs, and while yes it is just off the highway, it isn't exactly on the outskirts of the city either. There is some  density along that corridor of Mohawk Rd and really is the major retail center on the mountain. It's also very transit connected which most other locations on the mountain can't boast. One of the biggest complaints on the mountain is the lack of culture there, and putting the hockey team right in the middle of the commercial center might be what the doctor ordered.

As far as Copps, I doubt Andlauer is going to sink any more of his money into Copps, and I don't blame him. He already put money into renovating the locker rooms and replacing the video boards, and the deficiencies with the building should be replaced by the city or the management co. However they won't because both are pinching pennies. He might use a move threat as leverage in a lease negotiation or to try to force their hand at a reno, but fundamentally he knows if he continues to play out of there, he will never develop the atmosphere he needs to attract fans and become financially viable or attract a Memorial Cup.

As far as the West Harbour, it's not a bad idea, so long as you can get the higher levels of government to chip in for the millions in soil remediation needed. It's close to to GO line, which would benefit people coming from the corridor as well as fans from Niagara, Oshawa or Mississauga (if they stick around). That said, you lose a lot of the benefits of the West Harbour because of Winter. Bayfront Park doesn't see anywhere near the same level of use during the Winter months. That said, being able to have outdoor events in the giant outdoor rink that is Hamilton Harbor isn't a bad idea either.
I'd agree Limeridge isn't that suburban, but its still heavily dependent on the car as the means of getting there. All the pro sports are going into the downtown cores of their cities, I dont see why we would deviate from that. Especially if the arena is to be used as a convention facility and host other events, out of towners want to be close to the hotels, bars and restaurants of the downtown. The transit access will always be better downtown as well.

I think the point about Andleaur and the City is a stalemate. Is there even a place (city with a new $60M arena) for the Bulldogs to relocate to? Andelaur's best option might be to negotiate with the City that the Bulldogs have called home for 20 odd years. The City putting money towards a new site would be essentially cutting itself off at the knees. City owned Copps is now competing with a new (presumably city owned new arena?). Copps would have to be sold off to a developer for that to work, but there are plenty of vacant lots downtown they would rather see redeveloped, as opposed to adding a new giant building lot in the middle of downtown. Keeping Copps incentivizes developers to buy and redevelop other vacant downtown properties.  

If public money in involved, there has to be a clear benefit to the public. Andleaur may have to agree to a Copps reno.

-Hammer-

Couldn't agree more hammer about the aud.... but they had to work with what they had 14 mill reno project was really impressive built on top of the roof while hockey was being played with no delays like hamilton lol

The blue section is amazing big seats lots of leg room. ThatS why I choose blue section for my season tickets centre ice row 3..... wouldn't trade for any other section  8)
It'll be downtown and likely be a reno of Copps.

1. The City wont put any money into a suburban location (limeridge) for the same reasons they wouldnt agree to THF being built in the burbs. Its backwards thinking, major civic assets belong in the downtown, not off a highway like they did in the 1970s.

2. Doubt you'll get those surface lots by John/Hughson. Privately owned, the owners have held out for years, even when downtown was a dump. Now that condos are going up everywhere, I'm sure they're looking to cash in. They'll get way more selling to condo developer vs. City/Bulldogs.

3. The Copps feasibility study that came out a few months back identified a partial reno as the 'cheap' option at about $60M, the same price Andleaur pegged to build the new rink. IF City money is to be involved I can only see it going towards renovating Copps as that is probably the cheapest option for the City. I belive that option also left the upper bowl seating intact, meaning we can still attract the larger events, and dare I say it, keep the NHL option open for when Betteman has to come begging for a relocation option for Carolina/ Islanders/ Florida/ Vegas/ Phoenix or maybe the Sens.
I don't disagree about the first two points, but Limeridge isn't exactly the same as the rest of the mountain suburbs, and while yes it is just off the highway, it isn't exactly on the outskirts of the city either. There is some  density along that corridor of Mohawk Rd and really is the major retail center on the mountain. It's also very transit connected which most other locations on the mountain can't boast. One of the biggest complaints on the mountain is the lack of culture there, and putting the hockey team right in the middle of the commercial center might be what the doctor ordered.

As far as Copps, I doubt Andlauer is going to sink any more of his money into Copps, and I don't blame him. He already put money into renovating the locker rooms and replacing the video boards, and the deficiencies with the building should be replaced by the city or the management co. However they won't because both are pinching pennies. He might use a move threat as leverage in a lease negotiation or to try to force their hand at a reno, but fundamentally he knows if he continues to play out of there, he will never develop the atmosphere he needs to attract fans and become financially viable or attract a Memorial Cup.

As far as the West Harbour, it's not a bad idea, so long as you can get the higher levels of government to chip in for the millions in soil remediation needed. It's close to to GO line, which would benefit people coming from the corridor as well as fans from Niagara, Oshawa or Mississauga (if they stick around). That said, you lose a lot of the benefits of the West Harbour because of Winter. Bayfront Park doesn't see anywhere near the same level of use during the Winter months. That said, being able to have outdoor events in the giant outdoor rink that is Hamilton Harbor isn't a bad idea either.
I'd agree Limeridge isn't that suburban, but its still heavily dependent on the car as the means of getting there. All the pro sports are going into the downtown cores of their cities, I dont see why we would deviate from that. Especially if the arena is to be used as a convention facility and host other events, out of towners want to be close to the hotels, bars and restaurants of the downtown. The transit access will always be better downtown as well.

I think the point about Andleaur and the City is a stalemate. Is there even a place (city with a new $60M arena) for the Bulldogs to relocate to? Andelaur's best option might be to negotiate with the City that the Bulldogs have called home for 20 odd years. The City putting money towards a new site would be essentially cutting itself off at the knees. City owned Copps is now competing with a new (presumably city owned new arena?). Copps would have to be sold off to a developer for that to work, but there are plenty of vacant lots downtown they would rather see redeveloped, as opposed to adding a new giant building lot in the middle of downtown. Keeping Copps incentivizes developers to buy and redevelop other vacant downtown properties.  

If public money in involved, there has to be a clear benefit to the public. Andleaur may have to agree to a Copps reno.
I don't dispute that Copps is of net benefit to the city and that if Andlauer had a 5-10 thousand seat facility it would harm (and potentially be the end of) Copps.

That said, it's far too large to meet his needs. Even London, the most consistently profitable and packed OHL market around, where there is no pro sport competition without a 2 hour drive would not be able to sell out the First Ontario Centre and would just be filling out the lower bowl.

The problem with renovating Copps is that a 'cheap' reno of the place, just to get it to finish line as far as hosting a Memorial Cup (never mind addressing the problems with a lack of box seats, broken elevators and escalators, limited club level, dated décor etc) costs the same amount as a brand new, top of the line facility. A Memorial Cup would be great, but you can't budget off that and you'd still have a lot of problems with the facility.

It makes no sense for Andlauer to spend his money to upgrade a facility that he won't even own or have a substantial stake in the facility's non-hockey revenue when the costs of a cheap renovation are the same as building a new top of the line facility. Now if suddenly the city says "Ok, part of our deal means Andlauer gets a cut of all non-hockey events because he's put this money towards the renovation" then that's a different story, but that then runs the risk of ruining the deal with Core and the city has shown it can't and doesn't desire to operate the facility themselves. It's doubtful that the city is going to front the costs for him (which I would actually like to see the city do on it's own so we can keep drawing more event and a Memorial myself, but neither here nor there).

As far as a reallocation, there are several OHL options, but most require waiting or spending. However, one stands out and that is Cornwall.

Cornwall has long made overtures to the league and various ownership groups and have a 5,000 seat arena. There is a lot of talk Mississauga might go that way (which would be of benefit to the Bulldogs as we'd likely slide over into the same division as Niagara) if things don't turn around there.

As far as other spots

Brampton might try another kick of the can, but that's a long shot. They have an ECHL team that I'm to understand they draw worse then their old OHL team and also suffer from being a Habs affiliate in Leafs territory. I don't think they'll be quick to kick them out, but I would think an OHL team would be preferred (especially since you can kick the can again if Mississauga moves).

Belleville has just finished renovating their area (I believe with help from the Sens) which while a great story, except for Rochester and Hershey, literally every team in the AHL has moved around at some point and teams seem to want their AHL franchises closer then ever before. It wouldn't surprise me if you saw the Sens move that team into Ottawa proper if they get a new arena (and potentially try to muscle out the 67s)

However the more important point is, if Andlauer is willing to spend money on a new arena, it's no stretch to see another municipality helping him with the costs. Chatham, Burlington or Brantford (might have issues with Kitchener though)

You could also try Toronto or one of it's many other suburb cities (Like Vaughn, Markham, Richmond Hill, Pickering or Ajax) try to make a deal, but that said I think that's a recipe to lose money. The old Toronto Marlborough's moved out of the place because they couldn't draw, and given Mississauga and Brampton's woes, I don't see as the market being able to draw so close to the Leafs and current Marlies.
 


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