mycko75

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
We'd be still playing at Ivor Wynn because the residents would have held up stadium development in the Ontario Municipal Board, and then waiting for land remediation.  As such, the stadium dollars from the province and feds would have gone elsewhere.
The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.

Riggins

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues. 

longtimetcfan

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues.
The remediation would probably not be that quick or easy. Much of the land not residential was highly industrial so highly polluted. Besides an unknown time factor was the unknown cost of remediation. Estimates at the time ranged from a low of $3 million to somewhere over $30 million!, money not included in the $145 million stadium budget.

Plus IMO, one of the other sites rejected (deliberately not even studied) by the city would have been better and preferable to the west harbour site... a “discussion” and solution long past.

Lennywasout

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
I don’t believe for a minute that most of the land that was going to be used on the harbour front would have been usable without millions in remediation of all the heavy metals dumped there over a hundred years. Zoning was an issue.  
I agree in utopia it was perfect but reality is it would have been a nightmare as well.
How is the design “half assed”. What do you want for the $145 or so million to build? This is not Investors Field or the new Mosaic .  They were at least $100 million more.
Everyone from IO down signed off on the timeline. Issues were highlighted throughout the build with IO saying “don’t worry...it’s all under control”. So I don’t blame the Cats or the City for a late delivery and especially for construction delays and shoddy workmanship.  I heard from a friend , who is in construction and was working at HTF , that it was a mess dealing with the prime contractor right from the beginning.  No one to blame but IO (a Liberal creation) that was ill conceived at the outset.

Obrigardo

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
It was a once in a 100 yr chance and it was blown  by the ticats. Opportunity lost.having said that aren't you enjoying the new stadium district.what a great place for an evening out!

maritime1

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues.
The remediation would probably not be that quick or easy. Much of the land not residential was highly industrial so highly polluted. Besides an unknown time factor was the unknown cost of remediation. Estimates at the time ranged from a low of $3 million to somewhere over $30 million!, money not included in the $145 million stadium budget.

Plus IMO, one of the other sites rejected (deliberately not even studied) by the city would have been better and preferable to the west harbour site... a “discussion” and solution long past.
You are correct it's not just about the remediation but what about the fact there would be one single lane road going in there,  no parking,  no bus route set up.   I assume people would walk from the downtown?  
The IWS site was already zoned for a stadium,  drainage,  electrical and transportation route already established and the quickest site to get built before they lost the Pan Am funding.
I'm sure that if the city had $200 Million or so kicking around they could have taken their time and built eventually somewhere else.

Obrigardo

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues.
The remediation would probably not be that quick or easy. Much of the land not residential was highly industrial so highly polluted. Besides an unknown time factor was the unknown cost of remediation. Estimates at the time ranged from a low of $3 million to somewhere over $30 million!, money not included in the $145 million stadium budget.

Plus IMO, one of the other sites rejected (deliberately not even studied) by the city would have been better and preferable to the west harbour site... a “discussion” and solution long past.
You are correct it's not just about the remediation but what about the fact there would be one single lane road going in there,  no parking,  no bus route set up.   I assume people would walk from the downtown?  
The IWS site was already zoned for a stadium,  drainage,  electrical and transportation route already established and the quickest site to get built before they lost the Pan Am funding.
I'm sure that if the city had $200 Million or so kicking around they could have taken their time and built eventually built somewhere else.
How far do people walk to parking now?

longtimetcfan

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues.
The remediation would probably not be that quick or easy. Much of the land not residential was highly industrial so highly polluted. Besides an unknown time factor was the unknown cost of remediation. Estimates at the time ranged from a low of $3 million to somewhere over $30 million!, money not included in the $145 million stadium budget.

Plus IMO, one of the other sites rejected (deliberately not even studied) by the city would have been better and preferable to the west harbour site... a “discussion” and solution long past.
You are correct it's not just about the remediation but what about the fact there would be one single lane road going in there,  no parking,  no bus route set up.   I assume people would walk from the downtown?  
The IWS site was already zoned for a stadium,  drainage,  electrical and transportation route already established and the quickest site to get built before they lost the Pan Am funding.
I'm sure that if the city had $200 Million or so kicking around they could have taken their time and built eventually built somewhere else.
How far do people walk to parking now?
Not to rehash the whole debate, the west harbour location has many of the same so-called short comings as the present THF site. Limited parking and restricted access within a residential neighbourhood. West harbour may even be worse re traffic as the only major roads in/out are Bay St and perhaps Barton to Queen. Barton east of Bay is one lane each way to James. Northern routes to Burlington go thru tight residential areas. Of 25,000 fans, how many would use the supposed “plus” of the GO station?

The present Ivor Wynne site was the only option given the City’s obstinate single-minded focus on west harbour and nothing else.

Obrigardo

I don't think that's true.  The city wasn't delayed in knocking down all those buildings, they could have started the remediation work which would have been much less extensive than what's required for residential development.  The only group that would have fought the stadium was North End Neighbours.  They are known for taking everything to the OMB (which usually favours the developers) but they may have backed down had the City and the Ticats been in agreement and the rest of the city behind the project.  At worst it would have been a year or so delay, all the while remediation and design work continues.
The remediation would probably not be that quick or easy. Much of the land not residential was highly industrial so highly polluted. Besides an unknown time factor was the unknown cost of remediation. Estimates at the time ranged from a low of $3 million to somewhere over $30 million!, money not included in the $145 million stadium budget.

Plus IMO, one of the other sites rejected (deliberately not even studied) by the city would have been better and preferable to the west harbour site... a “discussion” and solution long past.
You are correct it's not just about the remediation but what about the fact there would be one single lane road going in there,  no parking,  no bus route set up.   I assume people would walk from the downtown?  
The IWS site was already zoned for a stadium,  drainage,  electrical and transportation route already established and the quickest site to get built before they lost the Pan Am funding.
I'm sure that if the city had $200 Million or so kicking around they could have taken their time and built eventually built somewhere else.
How far do people walk to parking now?
Not to rehash the whole debate, the west harbour location has many of the same so-called short comings as the present THF site. Limited parking and restricted access within a residential neighbourhood. West harbour may even be worse re traffic as the only major roads in/out are Bay St and perhaps Barton to Queen. Barton east of Bay is one lane each way to James. Northern routes to Burlington go thru tight residential areas. Of 25,000 fans, how many would use the supposed “plus” of the GO station?

The present Ivor Wynne site was the only option given the City’s obstinate single-minded focus on west harbour and nothing else.
How would you compare the two districts?

Grover

The City got a $150M Stadium for $50M in an area of the City that doesn't really ever see that kind of investment. The City and the taxpayers did well in this deal
The $50M was from the future fund, so Hamilton taxes didn't go up 1 thin dime to finance it.
The TiCats now pay $1.4M/yr for rent at THF, compared to the $26K/yr they paid for IWS.
THF is built to Silver LEED standards so the City pays much less for Hydro, heating and cooling, etc.
Compared to utilty costs at IWS.
At IWS, the stands were falling apart, the turf needed replacing, the big ticket deficiencies at IWS probably numbered in the 1000's.

We should give it up! A case of crying over spilled milk(milk that was spilled 4 years ago)
It is now up to the Cats and Council to make this work

Thanks to @Doc_Dave for sig

FormerlyTurkish

In November...vote out the whole lot

Espo

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
we'd probably still be in traffic trying to leave town from the second last home game of the season 
Extraordinary claims require extraodinary proofs

letsgoticats

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
we'd probably still be in traffic trying to leave town from the second last home game of the season
But the West Harbour GO Station would be right there to help alleviate traffic, with its two trains a day departing at 6 AM  ;)

Lennywasout

I don't know if there's a rule on this forum against reinvigorating the stadium debate but since it's already been brought up, all this would have been avoided if the Ticats had accepted the beautiful new waterfront stadium that was originally planned.  The problems at THF are due to the construction being rushed on a design that was half-ass in the first place.  Like seriously how did they think they would come out better with THF?  We could be preparing for a Grey Cup right now if they had just stuck with the plan.
It was a once in a 100 yr chance and it was blown  by the ticats. Opportunity lost.having said that aren't you enjoying the new stadium district.what a great place for an evening out!
How is it the Cats fault our council was totally myopic at the start of the process? The Mayor was totally locked into the west harbour without all the facts in front of him.
Given the constraints of money, what would you have done differently.  Great to criticize without giving a constructive response.  Sarcasm will only get you so far.
Do you have seasons tickets? Do you stay away because you can’t go out for a meal within walking distance of the stadium?
Most people I see at games seem to be having a good time...not all negative as you seem to espouse.

I think you should run for council and fix things in the future.  👍

Just my humble opinion of your post😀

Palmer

I'm repeating myself, but feel compelled to say it - I drive about 2 hours to the games, and I very much like going to THF in its present location.  I like to walk to the stadium through the residential sections with the "Hamilton Proud" flags flying and the neighbours in their Ti-Cat colours.  Got a great unifying vibe going on there.

A few things I'd like to see - maybe better traffic control after the games, like run Barton Street one way east for several blocks and Cannon one way west, or vice versa, for an hour or so afterwards, to clear congestion.  Some decent restaurants or watering holes around the stadium would also be nice, but I imagine it would be hard to make a living on 9 or 10 game nights.

However, overall, I think you have a very nice stadium in a very unique environment.  Can't see that building it elsewhere would necessarily have prevented the building errors and oversights, but admit that buidling in a new location before tearing down old IWS probably would have spared a lot of headaches and grief.  If it weren't for the outstanding structural and construction issues with the builder, I think you'd all feel a lot better about both the facility and the location, and that would no longer be an issue for you.
 


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