[West]

Well, other leagues like the NFL are paid by the military to do them. So, I don't want to see an infocommercial for the military or at the very least, it needs to be disclosed.

And if you're in favour of these type of days, then you shouldn't complain about other politically tinged activities happening from the Diversity shirts to American players not standing for their anthem.

You think paying respects to members who do essential services such as the military, firefighters, and police is making a political statement?

Yes, when the military is involved in conflicts someone thinks shouldn't have occurred and also are involved in so-called collateral damage in killing civilians. Yes, since not too many show their appreciation when they come home with PTSD & suicidal tendencies. Yes, when the military & cops can't get their own management & governance in order in regards to sexism & racism. Yes, when the cops are inappropriately overtargeting segments of our society and in some cases, killing them disproportionately or not really caring at all about certain crimes.

And the list can go for a page or two. You need to get out on the interwebs a bit more.

Don't see it the same way. I am against a lot of the wars we get involved in. Im sure there are good police forces with good cops and not so good police officers. Still doesn't mean I can't show some respect for the good ones who do their jobs in a professional manner. 

[dcmoses]

Well, other leagues like the NFL are paid by the military to do them. So, I don't want to see an infocommercial for the military or at the very least, it needs to be disclosed.

And if you're in favour of these type of days, then you shouldn't complain about other politically tinged activities happening from the Diversity shirts to American players not standing for their anthem.

You think paying respects to members who do essential services such as the military, firefighters, and police is making a political statement?

Yes, when the military is involved in conflicts someone thinks shouldn't have occurred and also are involved in so-called collateral damage in killing civilians. Yes, since not too many show their appreciation when they come home with PTSD & suicidal tendencies. Yes, when the military & cops can't get their own management & governance in order in regards to sexism & racism. Yes, when the cops are inappropriately overtargeting segments of our society and in some cases, killing them disproportionately or not really caring at all about certain crimes.

And the list can go for a page or two. You need to get out on the interwebs a bit more.

So glad my service has allowed someone as ignorant as you to paint all military as sexist and racist, simple killers without the capacity to discern between combatants and civilians and all the while selling a political agenda for whatever government has power today.

For your information, since you are in desperate need of an education, there are Conservatives, Liberals, NDP, Green and every other political persuasion in the CF. We are not overtly political. The one great irony is that while my service, and that of every other CF member, allows you the right to call us names, insult us and disrespect us for things beyond the control of the individual soldier I don't get to exercise that right myself. You don't like a conflict the government has gotten us into pick up a sign and join a protest. I don't get to exercise that right. You don't like the government of the day then campaign for the candidate you think would be better. I don't get to exercise that right. Not while I am a serving member. We must publicly remain, individually and as an organization, politically neutral. We serve the government of the day no matter who is our Prime Minister.

I'm not going to tell you to shut up or go away, you have a right to your opinion. However, when you tell me that a Military Appreciation event is a political statement then you are saying that by attending as a military member I am actively participating in that political statement. That is insulting and offensive; not because I don't support the government (which has happened over 36 years of serving under governments I liked, didn't like and could not stand) but because I as an individual and the CF as an organization are forbidden from displaying support for an one party or political agenda. 

I could quote Jack Nicholson, but that would be condescending and I don't need your thanks anyway. However, if you want to say thank you that's fine, but if you don't then just keep moving along and keep your uninformed insults and accusations to yourself. 

[StampsRock!]

Well put.

[West]

^^^ Yes very well said. The military serves under the command of whatever political party is in power. Nothing to do with one political leaning or the other. Regardless of who is in power we will still have a military and if you think it's insulting to thank those who fill an essential service, don't go to games. 

[RedandWhite]

...bravo dc, bravo...

[jaybird24]

Well, other leagues like the NFL are paid by the military to do them. So, I don't want to see an infocommercial for the military or at the very least, it needs to be disclosed.

And if you're in favour of these type of days, then you shouldn't complain about other politically tinged activities happening from the Diversity shirts to American players not standing for their anthem.

You think paying respects to members who do essential services such as the military, firefighters, and police is making a political statement?

Yes, when the military is involved in conflicts someone thinks shouldn't have occurred and also are involved in so-called collateral damage in killing civilians. Yes, since not too many show their appreciation when they come home with PTSD & suicidal tendencies. Yes, when the military & cops can't get their own management & governance in order in regards to sexism & racism. Yes, when the cops are inappropriately overtargeting segments of our society and in some cases, killing them disproportionately or not really caring at all about certain crimes.

And the list can go for a page or two. You need to get out on the interwebs a bit more.

So glad my service has allowed someone as ignorant as you to paint all military as sexist and racist, simple killers without the capacity to discern between combatants and civilians and all the while selling a political agenda for whatever government has power today.

For your information, since you are in desperate need of an education, there are Conservatives, Liberals, NDP, Green and every other political persuasion in the CF. We are not overtly political. The one great irony is that while my service, and that of every other CF member, allows you the right to call us names, insult us and disrespect us for things beyond the control of the individual soldier I don't get to exercise that right myself. You don't like a conflict the government has gotten us into pick up a sign and join a protest. I don't get to exercise that right. You don't like the government of the day then campaign for the candidate you think would be better. I don't get to exercise that right. Not while I am a serving member. We must publicly remain, individually and as an organization, politically neutral. We serve the government of the day no matter who is our Prime Minister.

I'm not going to tell you to shut up or go away, you have a right to your opinion. However, when you tell me that a Military Appreciation event is a political statement then you are saying that by attending as a military member I am actively participating in that political statement. That is insulting and offensive; not because I don't support the government (which has happened over 36 years of serving under governments I liked, didn't like and could not stand) but because I as an individual and the CF as an organization are forbidden from displaying support for an one party or political agenda.

I could quote Jack Nicholson, but that would be condescending and I don't need your thanks anyway. However, if you want to say thank you that's fine, but if you don't then just keep moving along and keep your uninformed insults and accusations to yourself.

Yes well said and the OP seems to forget that it is the military that is called in when there are floods and forest fires and ice storms etc,  they don't get overtime pay or complain about it.

per ardua ad astra
arte et marte
nulli secundas
etc

[everyman]

I guess I'm confused. How does a fly over of fighter jets by the Armed Services express the community appreciation of the military? This is an action taken by the military itself at the request of somebody. I thought when we show appreciation it was something the community does, something that shows their appreciation of a group.

It's like the police firing off a 21 gun salute and looking at that as akin to the community expressing appreciation.  Seems somewhat backward to me.

[CatsFaninOttawa]

Thank you, dcmoses, for your eloquent comments, and for your service. While I may not have supported all of the missions that our government has involved our military in, I definitely appreciate the service our military personnel provide.

[dcmoses]

I guess I'm confused. How does a fly over of fighter jets by the Armed Services express the community appreciation of the military? This is an action taken by the military itself at the request of somebody. I thought when we show appreciation it was something the community does, something that shows their appreciation of a group.

It's like the police firing off a 21 gun salute and looking at that as akin to the community expressing appreciation.  Seems somewhat backward to me.

Fly past is requested by the league or home team. It's likely felt a bit obligatory and a bit fun as most people do enjoy them. I'm in Trenton and when the F-18s or any other interesting visitor aircraft the parking lot by the ball fields at the west end of the runway fill with locals. We even get people stop just to watch the C-17 and Hercs.

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

[everyman]

I guess I'm confused. How does a fly over of fighter jets by the Armed Services express the community appreciation of the military? This is an action taken by the military itself at the request of somebody. I thought when we show appreciation it was something the community does, something that shows their appreciation of a group.

It's like the police firing off a 21 gun salute and looking at that as akin to the community expressing appreciation.  Seems somewhat backward to me.

Fly past is requested by the league or home team. It's likely felt a bit obligatory and a bit fun as most people do enjoy them. I'm in Trenton and when the F-18s or any other interesting visitor aircraft the parking lot by the ball fields at the west end of the runway fill with locals. We even get people stop just to watch the C-17 and Hercs.

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

Oh yeah I get that. I just think there's some confusion as to what constitutes showing appreciation. Or for that matters confusion on what actions demonstrate lack of respect for country, institutions or employees. 

[tabbyfan]

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

Here in Courtenay every summer the paper is full of complaints about the air cadets and their tow plane for the glider making too much noise!  Same people who purchased homes at the ends of the runway and then say that is beside the point.

Back in the 80s they protested so much (anti-war) that the CF moved 417 squadron out of Comox and the economy suffered so badly that they started yelling for the squadron to come back.  It didn't but they did base 4 or 6 F18s here to boost the economy some.  I believe the base contributes somewhere around 6 million to the local economy, not sure but it is millions.

[dcmoses]

I guess I'm confused. How does a fly over of fighter jets by the Armed Services express the community appreciation of the military? This is an action taken by the military itself at the request of somebody. I thought when we show appreciation it was something the community does, something that shows their appreciation of a group.

It's like the police firing off a 21 gun salute and looking at that as akin to the community expressing appreciation.  Seems somewhat backward to me.

Fly past is requested by the league or home team. It's likely felt a bit obligatory and a bit fun as most people do enjoy them. I'm in Trenton and when the F-18s or any other interesting visitor aircraft the parking lot by the ball fields at the west end of the runway fill with locals. We even get people stop just to watch the C-17 and Hercs.

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

Oh yeah I get that. I just think there's some confusion as to what constitutes showing appreciation. Or for that matters confusion on what actions demonstrate lack of respect for country, institutions or employees.

To add to that, the flypast is not just a military appreciation event. We have them when they play on Canada Day, Labour day and Grey Cup as well as the military appreciation days.

The flypast is a separate issue from the appreciation day and not necessarily required as it only represents the air force. Now when they sail a frigate to the stadium and run APCs and LAVs down the field......

[dcmoses]

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

Here in Courtenay every summer the paper is full of complaints about the air cadets and their tow plane for the glider making too much noise!  Same people who purchased homes at the ends of the runway and then say that is beside the point.

Back in the 80s they protested so much (anti-war) that the CF moved 417 squadron out of Comox and the economy suffered so badly that they started yelling for the squadron to come back.  It didn't but they did base 4 or 6 F18s here to boost the economy some.  I believe the base contributes somewhere around 6 million to the local economy, not sure but it is millions.

Trenton is the same as are most small towns with bases. No one batted an eye in the 90s when Chretien closed Uplands in Ottawa, but Moose Jaw fought hard for many years to ensure 15 Wing stayed open.

[jaybird24]

There are a lot of folks out there fascinated with things that fly.

Here in Courtenay every summer the paper is full of complaints about the air cadets and their tow plane for the glider making too much noise!  Same people who purchased homes at the ends of the runway and then say that is beside the point.

Back in the 80s they protested so much (anti-war) that the CF moved 417 squadron out of Comox and the economy suffered so badly that they started yelling for the squadron to come back.  It didn't but they did base 4 or 6 F18s here to boost the economy some.  I believe the base contributes somewhere around 6 million to the local economy, not sure but it is millions.

Trenton is the same as are most small towns with bases. No one batted an eye in the 90s when Chretien closed Uplands in Ottawa, but Moose Jaw fought hard for many years to ensure 15 Wing stayed open.

And disbanded the Airborne Regiment, cancelled the Sea King replacement,  closed LETE,  closed Rockcliffe...........and my mess.  
Closed our NATO bases in Europe but then a couple of years later we realized that we need to go back to Europe.
He also brought in a mass Buy-Out programme to get rid of experienced military people and then sent our people to Afghanistan and then realized we let too many military people go and then tried to mass recruit again.
So many bad mistakes in the mid to late 90s

But getting back to flypasts -  NOT a waste of money,  a pilot needs to train and fly he needs the hours to keep his "wings"  -  our pilots can fly their training missions and add a flypast.
Just too bad we only have fighters in northern Quebec and northern Alberta, out of sight out of mind.

[DAN38]

I've noticed that a few of the complainers are the first ones to scream for help when it is needed. The armed forces not only protect us (and the complainers), they also give young men and women direction and a career. Why is this society so ready to attack an institution for the mistakes of a few humans ?

Great post DC !