sucosam

Hi folks,

I play in a men's flag football league and we have several league specific rules however anything not in our rule book reverts back to CFL rules. Today we were at 2 seconds to play with the game tied. The white team was on the black teams 20 yard line. Ball is snapped to the QB, lateral pass to halfback where he then said punts the ball in an attempt to score a rouge.  The problem is it didn't go out of the end zone. Team black received the ball inside their endzone and then punted it back out, however it traveled only to the 15 yard line but landed out of bounds. The question(s) are should that be a penalty to team black for punting out of bounds? Should team white be awarded the rouge automatically with the punt attempt by black going out of bounds? It's a scenario that may come up again and could determine a win or not. Thank you. 

depopulationINC

CatsFaninOttawa

No penalty.

RULE 5 - KICKING
SECTION 4 – KICK FROM SCRIMMAGE AND OPEN-FIELD KICK
Article 3 – Kick From Scrimmage Going Out-of-Bounds In Flight
On a kick from scrimmage going out of bounds in flight from 20 yard line to 20 yard line, the receiving team will have the option of having a 10 yard penalty applied against the kicking team at either point of last scrimmage (PLS) with the down repeated, or at the point the ball was ruled out of bounds with a first down to the receiving team.

This was an open-field kick, not a kick from scrimmage, so Article 3 would not apply. 

Had it been a kick from scrimmage (i.e., a punt from a snap), it still wouldn't have been a penalty, as the ball went out of bounds at the 15, not between the 20s.

argonutII

No Penalty is interesting, and if so, teams should attempt to do that on any kicks returned out of the end zone. 
If this is allowed the defending team that was up a point or tied, with time winding down, should just kick the ball out of the end zone and of bounds. No return game over or into OT. 
Somehow I think this would result in a penalty. 

mysecondname

No Penalty is interesting, and if so, teams should attempt to do that on any kicks returned out of the end zone.
If this is allowed the defending team that was up a point or tied, with time winding down, should just kick the ball out of the end zone and of bounds. No return game over or into OT.
Somehow I think this would result in a penalty.
No penalty, and yes, if the defending player has time and his wits about him, he should kick it back and out of bounds. But he must be sure there is no time on the clock or else the opps will have another kick at the cat. (can, for cat lovers)

Similarly if a kick from scrimmage is fumbled by a returner in the end zone, he can, without penalty simply dribble kick the ball out of the end zone and out of bounds to prevent the point from being scored.
**********Owning a drone does not make one a pilot**********

CatsFaninOttawa

No Penalty is interesting, and if so, teams should attempt to do that on any kicks returned out of the end zone.
If this is allowed the defending team that was up a point or tied, with time winding down, should just kick the ball out of the end zone and of bounds. No return game over or into OT.
Somehow I think this would result in a penalty.
No penalty, and yes, if the defending player has time and his wits about him, he should kick it back and out of bounds. But he must be sure there is no time on the clock or else the opps will have another kick at the cat. (can, for cat lovers)

Similarly if a kick from scrimmage is fumbled by a returner in the end zone, he can, without penalty simply dribble kick the ball out of the end zone and out of bounds to prevent the point from being scored.
He would also have to make sure the ball makes it out of the end zone. Otherwise, the rouge would be awarded. This isn't something I'd recommend a player try unless he's used to punting.

ro1313



Similarly if a kick from scrimmage is fumbled by a returner in the end zone, he can, without penalty simply dribble kick the ball out of the end zone and out of bounds to prevent the point from being scored.
Uh no.....That would be a safety

sucosam

Interesting. Thank you for the replies. So is it the consensus that there was no penalty on this play and the result was correct in that the time ran out and the game finished in a tie? 

I'm curious about hte below rule thoug. The thing that gives me pause however is the "Goal Area".

PENALTYL10
Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:

ro1313


Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:
My problem with that example is that
Do they mean OOB in the goal area, meaning it went out before it crossed the goal line back onto the field or it went out after crossing the goal line

Another way to put it is

Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
OR
Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds FROM own Goal Area

sucosam


Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:
My problem with that example is that
Do they mean OOB in the goal area, meaning it went out before it crossed the goal line back onto the field or it went out after crossing the goal line

Another way to put it is

Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
OR
Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds FROM own Goal Area
That was my concern also. In my example the ball went out of bounds after it left their own goal area, but did not land in the field of play. You can see why we've been having a tough time with this because it's been hard to find a rule that seems to fit this scenario. 

mysecondname


Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:
My problem with that example is that
Do they mean OOB in the goal area, meaning it went out before it crossed the goal line back onto the field or it went out after crossing the goal line

Another way to put it is

Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
OR
Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds FROM own Goal Area
That was my concern also. In my example the ball went out of bounds after it left their own goal area, but did not land in the field of play. You can see why we've been having a tough time with this because it's been hard to find a rule that seems to fit this scenario.
If,  there is no rule identifying a penalty for kicking the ball out of bounds between the goal lines, from the goal area, unless some other foul ocurred, the ball would just be considered dead when it goes out of bounds outside the endzone, no scoring and if there is no time on the clock the game ends. Of course, if after dribble kicking the ball it fails to go out of the endzone, but goes directly out of bounds in the end zone, a rouge would be scored. This second senario is what Article 9 is representing.

mysecondname


Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:
My problem with that example is that
Do they mean OOB in the goal area, meaning it went out before it crossed the goal line back onto the field or it went out after crossing the goal line

Another way to put it is

Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
OR
Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds FROM own Goal Area
That was my concern also. In my example the ball went out of bounds after it left their own goal area, but did not land in the field of play. You can see why we've been having a tough time with this because it's been hard to find a rule that seems to fit this scenario.
I have always found CFL rules to be vague, but it does seem everytime I investigate them for clarity, there is enough, somewhere within them, to justify rulings previously made. One acceptable Canadian football play that would baffle many fans is the permission in the rules that allows any player in legal possession of the ball in play, to make an attempt to kick a field goal, anytime from anywhere on the field. eg: After scrimmaging from the 35 yd line the offensive team fumbles on the oppositions 30 yard line and a a O-lineman picks up the ball. With no time on the clock he makes space for himself at the 8 yard line to try a field goal. He's successful! 3 point is scored.

CatsFaninOttawa

Interesting. Thank you for the replies. So is it the consensus that there was no penalty on this play and the result was correct in that the time ran out and the game finished in a tie?

I'm curious about hte below rule thoug. The thing that gives me pause however is the "Goal Area".

PENALTY: L10
Article 9 — Ball Kicked Out Of Bounds In Own Goal Area
When a team in its own Goal Area kicks the ball Out of Bounds in its own Goal Area, the ball shall be deemed to have become dead in the Goal Area and the opponent shall be awarded:
I have always understood this to be a ball that is kicked from inside a player's own goal area (i.e., end zone) and goes out of bounds without crossing the goal line.

And to support this understanding, the following rule describes the term fairly clearly.

RULE 1 – CONDUCT OF THE GAME
SECTION 9 – OUT OF BOUNDS
Article 4 – Ball Going Into Opponent’s Goal Area
When a player directs the ball, other than by kicking, from the Field of Play over the opponent’s Goal Line and hence Out of Bounds in the Goal Area without the ball touching an opponent, it shall be ruled as a fumble Out of Bounds in the Field of Play, with the ball declared dead at the point where it was last touched in the Field of Play.

ro1313

After scrimmaging from the 35 yd line the offensive team fumbles on the oppositions 30 yard line and a a O-lineman picks up the ball. With no time on the clock he makes space for himself at the 8 yard line to try a field goal. He's successful! 3 point is scored.
Drop kick maybe....But Im sure someone would tackle him while he was placing the ball on the tee

CatsFaninOttawa


I have always found CFL rules to be vague, but it does seem everytime I investigate them for clarity, there is enough, somewhere within them, to justify rulings previously made. One acceptable Canadian football play that would baffle many fans is the permission in the rules that allows any player in legal possession of the ball in play, to make an attempt to kick a field goal, anytime from anywhere on the field. eg: After scrimmaging from the 35 yd line the offensive team fumbles on the oppositions 30 yard line and a a O-lineman picks up the ball. With no time on the clock he makes space for himself at the 8 yard line to try a field goal. He's successful! 3 point is scored.
One thing that I don't see, similar to this, is whether a drop kick would be allowed on a failed convert - by either team. I suspect that the defence would be awarded a single point if they did this, but the offence might only be awarded a single if they originally attempted the single from the 25. If they go for two, I'm thinking they have forfeited the right to score the single.

None of these scenarios is in the rule book that I can find.
 


Users Online

116 Guests, 17 Users (17 Spiders, 2 Hidden)

Users active in past 15 minutes:
toddstattoo, sully, raymarkca, bohdon, PTBO Dave, Rider_6, Lyle B. Style, btharner, Iconic SR, 150GAGE, VICIOUSCIRCLE, OskeeweeneeVI, themuck, Obrigardo, Mightygoose, Yahoo!, Google (15), Baidu

Most Online Today: 156. Most Online Ever: 484 (Aug 28 2017, 09:35 PM)