everyman

Sometimes I wonder if these are really bonuses or simply an advance on the contracted salary in order to get the guaranteed money up front.

It would make a difference to how I view these matters.

depopulationINC

Sometimes I wonder if these are really bonuses or simply an advance on the contracted salary in order to get the guaranteed money up front.

It would make a difference to how I view these matters.
Well, DD signed for something like 140k apparently and received 70 up front.  Do you believe a 12 year vet is signing for 70k?  These are always essentially advances of pay.  In fact, it goes beyond that...these advances/bonuses often drive down the overall contract value...they are a tax shelter for US players.

The only true bonuses in the CFL are performance bonuses, all-star cash and playing playoff games.

HfxTC

Sometimes I wonder if these are really bonuses or simply an advance on the contracted salary in order to get the guaranteed money up front.

It would make a difference to how I view these matters.
In my opinion: Signing bonuses are attempts by teams to lower the salary demand by offering to pay more of it up front. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. In this case terrible risk management by Kyle Walters.
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

depopulationINC

I don't begrudge Durant keeping the bonus at all.

The company known as the CFL and it's members do this continually to it's players. GMs are applauded for it everywhere as good money managers. Why would a player not do it. Only makes sense doesn't it.

Durant was due by contract to receive a bonus of $150,000 by Montreal  and was released the day before. He got some of it back now.

Not sure why he is getting flack. And I'm no big fan of his.

But I'm not saying anything new here.

Signing bonus is.....I am going to play for you this season
Roster bonus is.....if you are still around you will get a nice chunk of your contract on X date.


These are not the same thing.   One is a tax shelter and a promissory note.  The other is a piece of the pie early....nothing more.

HfxTC

I don't begrudge Durant keeping the bonus at all.

The company known as the CFL and it's members do this continually to it's players. GMs are applauded for it everywhere as good money managers. Why would a player not do it. Only makes sense doesn't it.

Durant was due by contract to receive a bonus of $150,000 by Montreal  and was released the day before. He got some of it back now.

Not sure why he is getting flack. And I'm no big fan of his.

But I'm not saying anything new here.

Signing bonus is.....If I am still around, I am going to play for you this season
Roster bonus is.....if you are still around you will get a nice chunk of your contract on X date.


These are not the same thing.   One is a tax shelter and a promissory note.  The other is a piece of the pie early....nothing more.
Fixed it for you

depopulationINC

Here is the thing with SIGNING bonus. They gave him the money to sign the piece of paper, not to dress for 18 games or 1 game. The money is his. He signed the piece of paper that said if he played football in 2018 it would be for the Bombers. BOOM!

It was bad risk management by Walters. For a number of reasons. If Durant had hurt himself that 70k was spoken for. You don't give a 70k bonus to an injury riddled backup at the end of his rope!

This is all on Walters.

To claim well he should do "the right thing" and give it back is really funny.
BS.  This is 100% false.  

They are not signing an autograph.  They are signing to conditions.  They are signing saying "yeah, I am going to play for you and a motivation in doing so is you showing faith / seriousness in me by giving me some of that cash now...I will not be camp fodder."  I can assure you there is no "if" written on that piece of paper in regards to this.


This verbiage is in the standard contract, and is in every CFL player's contract.

Quote
1.   The term of this Contract shall be from the date of execution hereof until the 15thday of February following
the close of the football season commencing in 20____, subject however to the right of prior termination as specified herein.
 
2.   The Player agrees that during the term of this Contract he will play football and will engage in activities related to football only for the Club and will play for the Club in two Pre-Season games, and eighteen (18) regular season games and Canadian Football League playoff games and any other game approved by the Canadian Football League Players’ Association; and the Club, subject to the provisions hereof, agrees during such period to employ the Player as a skilled football Player. The Player agrees during the term of this Contract to report promptly for the Club’s training sessions and at the Club’s directions to participate in all practice sessions.

No it does not mean he "has" to play...obviously one can not be forced to.  It is however black and white that what is being signed is for the given season and thus the pay is.  If what you are saying held any water then a retiring player should get the entire value of that contract...cuz they signed it.  The contract is saying that the player intends to play.  

Recent examples....Price did the same thing and it was a slimy move.  MOB backed out as well...difference is he offered the money back because it was a legit change of heart.  


Everyone knows there are risks with signing bonuses and roster bonuses...no question.  DD's is looking more and more like he never intended to honor that contract though...and that is shady.  



depopulationINC

I don't begrudge Durant keeping the bonus at all.

The company known as the CFL and it's members do this continually to it's players. GMs are applauded for it everywhere as good money managers. Why would a player not do it. Only makes sense doesn't it.

Durant was due by contract to receive a bonus of $150,000 by Montreal  and was released the day before. He got some of it back now.

Not sure why he is getting flack. And I'm no big fan of his.

But I'm not saying anything new here.

Signing bonus is.....If I am still around, I am going to play for you this season
Roster bonus is.....if you are still around you will get a nice chunk of your contract on X date.


These are not the same thing.   One is a tax shelter and a promissory note.  The other is a piece of the pie early....nothing more.
Fixed it for you
No, you caused error in it actually.  You are 100% wrong.  read a standard player contract instead of slapping weird arse assumptions from your head on the table here and assuming they are fact and that a fricken legal document indicates something like 'hey, you know, if you feel like showing up can you promise to play for us?'....in what world do you think a lawyer would write something at all like that?  There is no way in hell they would. 

They are available for your viewing pleasure here:

https://media.cfldb.ca/documents/appendix-a-standard-player-contract.pdf

PTBO Dave

Here is the thing with SIGNING bonus. They gave him the money to sign the piece of paper, not to dress for 18 games or 1 game. The money is his. He signed the piece of paper that said if he played football in 2018 it would be for the Bombers. BOOM!

It was bad risk management by Walters. For a number of reasons. If Durant had hurt himself that 70k was spoken for. You don't give a 70k bonus to an injury riddled backup at the end of his rope!

This is all on Walters.

To claim well he should do "the right thing" and give it back is really funny.
BS.  This is 100% false.  

They are not signing an autograph.  They are signing to conditions.  They are signing saying "yeah, I am going to play for you and a motivation in doing so is you showing faith / seriousness in me by giving me some of that cash now...I will not be camp fodder."  I can assure you there is no "if" written on that piece of paper in regards to this.


This verbiage is in the standard contract, and is in every CFL player's contract.

Quote
1.   The term of this Contract shall be from the date of execution hereof until the 15thday of February following
the close of the football season commencing in 20____, subject however to the right of prior termination as specified herein.
 
2.   The Player agrees that during the term of this Contract he will play football and will engage in activities related to football only for the Club and will play for the Club in two Pre-Season games, and eighteen (18) regular season games and Canadian Football League playoff games and any other game approved by the Canadian Football League Players’ Association; and the Club, subject to the provisions hereof, agrees during such period to employ the Player as a skilled football Player. The Player agrees during the term of this Contract to report promptly for the Club’s training sessions and at the Club’s directions to participate in all practice sessions.

No it does not mean he "has" to play...obviously one can not be forced to.  It is however black and white that what is being signed is for the given season and thus the pay is.  If what you are saying held any water then a retiring player should get the entire value of that contract...cuz they signed it.  The contract is saying that the player intends to play.  

Recent examples....Price did the same thing and it was a slimy move.  MOB backed out as well...difference is he offered the money back because it was a legit change of heart.  


Everyone knows there are risks with signing bonuses and roster bonuses...no question.  DD's is looking more and more like he never intended to honor that contract though...and that is shady.  
There is another relevant part of the standard contract:

23. Should the Player become a member of the Armed Forces of either Canada or the United States of America, and be unable to perform the services as agreed herein, or should the Player retire from football, prior to the expiration of the term of this Contract, in either case, the Player shall be ineligible to play football for any other person, firm, club or corporation until the expiration date of this Contract or the termination of this Contract by the Club, whichever first occurs.

If Durant was open with the Bombers that he was contemplating retirement, which seems to be the case, then they knew offering a signing bonus was a gamble.

And even if they didn't know before signing him that retirement was on his mind, the possibility of retirement is written into the standard contract, so again unless they specifically made provisions in the contract to recoup that bonus upon retirement, then the financial loss is on them.

Of course, if Durant signed just in order to get the bonus, that's pretty dishonest even if it follows the letter of the contract.

But if he was legitimately undecided and the Bombers offered the signing bonus to keep his potential playing rights (since retirement is always a possibility) from other clubs, then so be it.

everyman

So Depop...using your numbers you are saying that Bombers and  Durant agreed to a 2018 contract that would pay Durant $140,000.

As part of that $140,000 contract Durant received $70,000 up front. 

So Durant received 1/2 of his salary up front...then retired...and is keeping 1/2 of his 2018 salary. Is that what you are saying?

depopulationINC

Here is the thing with SIGNING bonus. They gave him the money to sign the piece of paper, not to dress for 18 games or 1 game. The money is his. He signed the piece of paper that said if he played football in 2018 it would be for the Bombers. BOOM!

It was bad risk management by Walters. For a number of reasons. If Durant had hurt himself that 70k was spoken for. You don't give a 70k bonus to an injury riddled backup at the end of his rope!

This is all on Walters.

To claim well he should do "the right thing" and give it back is really funny.
BS.  This is 100% false.  

They are not signing an autograph.  They are signing to conditions.  They are signing saying "yeah, I am going to play for you and a motivation in doing so is you showing faith / seriousness in me by giving me some of that cash now...I will not be camp fodder."  I can assure you there is no "if" written on that piece of paper in regards to this.


This verbiage is in the standard contract, and is in every CFL player's contract.

Quote
1.   The term of this Contract shall be from the date of execution hereof until the 15thday of February following
the close of the football season commencing in 20____, subject however to the right of prior termination as specified herein.
 
2.   The Player agrees that during the term of this Contract he will play football and will engage in activities related to football only for the Club and will play for the Club in two Pre-Season games, and eighteen (18) regular season games and Canadian Football League playoff games and any other game approved by the Canadian Football League Players’ Association; and the Club, subject to the provisions hereof, agrees during such period to employ the Player as a skilled football Player. The Player agrees during the term of this Contract to report promptly for the Club’s training sessions and at the Club’s directions to participate in all practice sessions.

No it does not mean he "has" to play...obviously one can not be forced to.  It is however black and white that what is being signed is for the given season and thus the pay is.  If what you are saying held any water then a retiring player should get the entire value of that contract...cuz they signed it.  The contract is saying that the player intends to play.  

Recent examples....Price did the same thing and it was a slimy move.  MOB backed out as well...difference is he offered the money back because it was a legit change of heart.  


Everyone knows there are risks with signing bonuses and roster bonuses...no question.  DD's is looking more and more like he never intended to honor that contract though...and that is shady.  
There is another relevant part of the standard contract:

23. Should the Player become a member of the Armed Forces of either Canada or the United States of America, and be unable to perform the services as agreed herein, or should the Player retire from football, prior to the expiration of the term of this Contract, in either case, the Player shall be ineligible to play football for any other person, firm, club or corporation until the expiration date of this Contract or the termination of this Contract by the Club, whichever first occurs.

If Durant was open with the Bombers that he was contemplating retirement, which seems to be the case, then they knew offering a signing bonus was a gamble.

And even if they didn't know before signing him that retirement was on his mind, the possibility of retirement is written into the standard contract, so again unless they specifically made provisions in the contract to recoup that bonus upon retirement, then the financial loss is on them.

Of course, if Durant signed just in order to get the bonus, that's pretty dishonest even if it follows the letter of the contract.

But if he was legitimately undecided and the Bombers offered the signing bonus to keep his potential playing rights (since retirement is always a possibility) from other clubs, then so be it.
That excerpt says nothing but they can't play elsewhere. 

Like i said...Everyone knows there are risks with signing bonuses and roster bonuses...no question.

depopulationINC

So Depop...using your numbers you are saying that Bombers and  Durant agreed to a 2018 contract that would pay Durant $140,000.

As part of that $140,000 contract Durant received $70,000 up front.

So Durant received 1/2 of his salary up front...then retired...and is keeping 1/2 of his 2018 salary. Is that what you are saying?
pretty much.  I am not sure on actual value...hearing 140 and 150 total.  Call it a bonus if one wants...it is a chunk of the overall salary upfront...not something above and beyond....sure as heck not paying 70k "extra" in the CFL...and definitely not on a 1 year deal.  Simply not how it is.

everyman

So Depop...using your numbers you are saying that Bombers and  Durant agreed to a 2018 contract that would pay Durant $140,000.

As part of that $140,000 contract Durant received $70,000 up front.

So Durant received 1/2 of his salary up front...then retired...and is keeping 1/2 of his 2018 salary. Is that what you are saying?
pretty much.  I am not sure on actual value...hearing 140 and 150 total.  Call it a bonus if one wants...it is a chunk of the overall salary upfront...not something above and beyond....sure as heck not paying 70k "extra" in the CFL...and definitely not on a 1 year deal.  Simply not how it is.
Ok...thanks. The actual number is not important.

But bonus is NOT a correct term. Advance is more like it.

Iconic SR

Notice how Ricky Ray is never in the news in a controversial way about effort, or compensation, or possibility of phantom injuries etc?

There’s always a couple different ways to approach the business of pro sports. Not that either is right or wrong - just different. 

depopulationINC

So Depop...using your numbers you are saying that Bombers and  Durant agreed to a 2018 contract that would pay Durant $140,000.

As part of that $140,000 contract Durant received $70,000 up front.

So Durant received 1/2 of his salary up front...then retired...and is keeping 1/2 of his 2018 salary. Is that what you are saying?
pretty much.  I am not sure on actual value...hearing 140 and 150 total.  Call it a bonus if one wants...it is a chunk of the overall salary upfront...not something above and beyond....sure as heck not paying 70k "extra" in the CFL...and definitely not on a 1 year deal.  Simply not how it is.
Ok...thanks. The actual number is not important.

But bonus is NOT a correct term. Advance is more like it.
It is called a bonus because it is a tax shelter in the US.

DAN38

Notice how Ricky Ray is never in the news in a controversial way about effort, or compensation, or possibility of phantom injuries etc?

There’s always a couple different ways to approach the business of pro sports. Not that either is right or wrong - just different.
  Ray does it right. Durant does it wrong. Sad way to end your career. No matter what he did before, this will be remembered as his swan song.
Si vis pacem... para bellum
 


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