HfxTC

Otherwise, other than maybe Halifax, the CFL will never expand.
..other than maybe Halifax, the CFL doesn't need to expand

...expansion for the sake of expansion is not a good thing, and right now no area of Canada other than the maritimes are screaming for a professional football team...
Completely agree R&W.


Quote
Why invest time, effort and money in a place where the leadership will openly sabotage any efforts? This is a great league, no need to lower themselves that way. The mayor and his henchmen robbed the purse of 400 million to build a rink in a city where an NHL team would lose at minimum of 50 million dollars a year, every year and year after that. The city is already admitting to loses of 5 to 10 million a year paying and maintaining their white elephant.

My advice is stay away from corrupt politicians at all cost.
Didn't know that Hf. Wow.
It gets better ! The city of Quebec is contractually obligated to pickup half the net losses of Quebecor's sport division. in 2015 the City wrote a cheque to Quebecor for $729 167.00, this year the cheque written to Videotron (a private companty was a wopping 2.5 million dollars!


That is on top of the negative 5.2 million dollar announced last year.


Quote
«Moi, je vous dirais que je commence à être impatient. J’ai hâte que Québecor se mette à faire de l’argent avec l’amphithéâtre», a-t-il lâché en réponse aux questions des journalistes sur la sortie de l’opposition, la veille, qui dénonçait des coûts annuels de 5,2 M$ pour la Ville, loin des 600 000 $ annoncés en 2011.
La Ville estime plutôt qu’elle doit débourser 3,7 M$ par an pour l’amphithéâtre, en incluant les coûts d’emprunt. Cela dit, l’écart est important par rapport aux projections de l’époque et l’absence de loyer joue pour beaucoup.
The city had told the citizens the loss would be 600k

So for the last year. NOT INCLUDING FINANCING COSTS (5.2 MILLION DOLLARS) the city paid 2.5 million to Videotron, 719 000.00 in salaries, 315 000.00 for technical services. for a total of 8.6 million dollars and the mayor claims a net profit of one million dollars which is interesting because the total of the income "projected" is 600k for parking, 1 million (see that round number again) for ticket fees and rent of 2 million dollars, which in anyone's books is 3.6 million projected ;) against costs of 8.6 million dollars but in Quebec that is a profit of a million. Because the mayor ignores the financing costs of the building. Would be nice if we could all do that with our budgets.

If you are interested in what that means in the big picture. The rink losses basically accounts for 1 percent of the city's budget. A city of 400k people with a net debt of 1.577 billion dollar budget.

That is why most municipalities are fearful of investing in these types of projects.
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

rshmglsky


But the CFL doesn't own the Vanier Cup, so they really have no say in where it's held.

That doesn't mean there couldn't be synergy/partnership between the league and the amateur level.

<And if they did own the VC and intentionally cut QC/Laval out of the running, it might further alienate them from the game rather than attract them to the game.>

I think the Vanier Cup would be a more attractive proposition if it was held near where the Grey Cup was so fans could go on a football pilgrimage. Maybe not every year, but at least having them air on the same network.






HfxTC


But the CFL doesn't own the Vanier Cup, so they really have no say in where it's held.

That doesn't mean there couldn't be synergy/partnership between the league and the amateur level.

<And if they did own the VC and intentionally cut QC/Laval out of the running, it might further alienate them from the game rather than attract them to the game.>

I think the Vanier Cup would be a more attractive proposition if it was held near where the Grey Cup was so fans could go on a football pilgrimage. Maybe not every year, but at least having them air on the same network.
For one it is arrogant to think the CFL should use the Vanier cup as a peon. One it is the crown jewel of CIS sport and should remain that way. I agree the CIS is a really, really badly run organization but the Vanier is entirely their responsability. There are some negative in holding the Vanier in the same location such as inflated flight and hotel availability and price issues. Student population needs to be considered as well.

rshmglsky

<For one it is arrogant to think the CFL should use the Vanier cup as a peon.>

But isn't that how professional sports work? I mean just look at Quebec City and the NHL using it as the exhibition capital of the hockey world?

Doesn't mean I have to like it, but if that's the game people want to play... (Just finished binge watching Frontier... yikes what a show... so that might explain my mindset)

I don't think having some kind of synergy/cooperation would necessarily be using the Vanier Cup to do all the heavy lifting, nor depreciating its value. It would be about increasing its brand presence. If such a thing was possible there could simply be more incentive to hold the Vanier Cup where there is a nearby CFL presence, as opposed to Quebec City where there is none.

Say I was in Montreal for the Grey Cup, I might go to Quebec City to see the Vanier Cup as well, but of course I wouldn't make my way out there if there was no Grey Cup in Montreal to begin with.

But of course if the CIS wants to run their organization badly that is entirely their right.

I don't see how inflated  flights, hotel availability would be an issue. That would be like only having one event at the Olympics or the Stanley Cup Finals only having one game.

The Vanier Cup has dismal attendance anyway.

rshmglsky

Just read the bottom of this article.

https://www.thespec.com/sports-story/6988995-radley-dismal-attendance-only-downside-of-vanier-cup/

...

When the McMaster Marauders played in their first Vanier Cup back in 2011, 24,935 football fans were in the stands of B.C. Place. The next year when they returned to the big game in Toronto, 37,098 folks were there. And in 2014, 22,649 filled the seats in Montreal.
Those games demonstrate rather clearly the two scenarios under which a modern Vanier Cup can succeed: You can make it part of the Grey Cup weekend in the same town the CFL championship is being contested. Or you can make sure the home team — or a team close enough to be called home — is in the game.

HfxTC

<For one it is arrogant to think the CFL should use the Vanier cup as a peon.>

But isn't that how professional sports work? I mean just look at Quebec City and the NHL using it as the exhibition capital of the hockey world?

Doesn't mean I have to like it, but if that's the game people want to play... (Just finished binge watching Frontier... yikes what a show... so that might explain my mindset)

I don't think having some kind of synergy/cooperation would necessarily be using the Vanier Cup to do all the heavy lifting, nor depreciating its value. It would be about increasing its brand presence. If such a thing was possible there could simply be more incentive to hold the Vanier Cup where there is a nearby CFL presence, as opposed to Quebec City where there is none.

Say I was in Montreal for the Grey Cup, I might go to Quebec City to see the Vanier Cup as well, but of course I wouldn't make my way out there if there was no Grey Cup in Montreal to begin with.

But of course if the CIS wants to run their organization badly that is entirely their right.

I don't see how inflated  flights, hotel availability would be an issue. That would be like only having one event at the Olympics or the Stanley Cup Finals only having one game.

The Vanier Cup has dismal attendance anyway.
The only way for this to be a sure fire thing is to bundle the tickets together. This would be the way to go. CIS get's a cut that would likely by a million dollars or more for the game and they would have zero cost or organization to do. But most CFL towns can't handle double the out of town visitors.

rshmglsky

Better get those airbnb rentals ready then.

PTBO Dave

I like the idea of creating a synergy between the Grey Cup and Vanier Cup, and having the Vanier in QC and the Grey Cup in Montreal could work in promoting both games in different markets.

It looks as though the CFL will be going for earlier and earlier Grey Cups though, while USport will likely stick to late November because of semester constraints.

Maybe, though, with Rogers getting involved with the Argos, they will do more to promote USport football too.

Connecticut Yankee



this is from 2009
https://www.pressreader.com/canada/montreal-gazette/20090509/282059092951027

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/ottawa-rejects-proposal-for-cfl-stadium-at-laval/article17971288/

Miss Saint-Marche was attempting to buy the Stampeders in 2005 during the upheaval with
The Feteriks. The league obviously did not want to be involved with her( Murry Pezim - like
eccentric).I give her credit for attempting to join the Good Ol' Boys club.She might have lit
a fire under this league in a good way.

Mr.Bellemare's project would have been interesting to see.I remember seeing John Lu do a
segment on TSN about the growth of football in Quebec during that time frame. They did a pan
shot of the proposed plot of land for the stadium.It could work if they get some of that money 
that is being thrown about globally towards real estate.The Quebec provincial government did
give Mr.Saputo over 20 million for his stadium.That could be a big enough stadium
to run a team in CFL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saputo_Stadium


This might move forward when Quebec gets the NHL back in 2023.If Quebecor gets involved
as a means of getting media content.It would be smart of the league to focus on Halifax at 
the moment(That group needs a real estate whale to get that project going forward).

The next decade could be interesting for the CFL
http://www.ceiarchitecture.com/project/28000-seat-stadium-study/

let's make it 12.

Aerial

Quote
I agree the CIS is a really, really badly run organization
Look HFx, I agree CIS sports draws poorly at the gate for the most part and on television, again for the most part, but does logic mean therefore that the CIS is a badly run organization?  I don't know that, for all I know they are doing the best for the resources they have to try and promote the CIS sports and leagues as "spectator" along the lines of the NCAA, if in fact that is what they are really trying hard to do?  :-\

I personally think that the CIS sees itself more in the light of participation for the athletes as a sideline to what they are there for, their post secondary education, in comparison with the NCAA, at least the major programs, that see itself in the light of how much money can said program make from television, spectators etc.

McMaster was a weird timing back then with the Grey Cup and Vanier at the Rogers Centre.  McMaster Marauders draw poorly for their home games now for football and I think part of it back then was all being about a certain percentage of people in Hamilton not liking the TiCats and stadium situation where Bob Young refused West Harbour and these people were trying to show that the Marauders were more important than the Cats in the City.  At least part of the reasoning here.  Albeit a lot of McMaster people in the GTHA who love the Rogers Centre for a bang, as well.  Anyways, the "support" hasn't lasted.
"Canadian football does in fact have 4 downs, its just that as Canadians we are very polite and punt on the third down" -John Candy, SCTV

TravelPat1

The support for Mac (and many OUA teams) in terms of attendance dropped in large part due to the OUA disappearing from TV. In Hamilton last year the Mac games were not on TV at all - not even on Cable 14 - and as a result they completely fell off the radar for casual football fans.

Not getting your games on TV is reflective of being 'poorly run' IMO.

Aerial

I certainly agree that it's a must with so many competing interests out there for people's attention that any league at a fairly high level must have fairly regular exposure on television to be deemed "not poorly run".  But if you do have regular television exposure on a decent network, does that automatically mean your league is successful regardless of attendance?  I don't know.  We've seen teams in the majors go defunct or leave town even with regular television exposure and very decent viewership numbers so it's no guarantee I would say that regular television exposure will mean said team in whatever league will last in a city.  A lot of other factors at stake.  Some, well most actually, amateur teams, say in the CIS for example, with poor attendance and little television exposure keep on truckin year after year.

CFL Pete

Watching Quebec City collect the Grey Cup trophy will be worse than the Baltimore Stallions stealing away with same in 1995.  The best argument says the CFL should stabilize its nine teams before expanding.  And if expansion is being considered, reconsider going to the States.  Sacramento Gold Miners.  Everyone says the idea of American expansion was good, but that the execution was poor.  At the time the CFL needed the money, and let's face it, Larry Smith fleeced the Yanks to save the CFL's life.  It's no longer about money, but what's the difference between Quebec City and an American team anyway?

Expansion?  Maritime Kraken.  Windsor Ambassadors.  London Mustangs.  And let's see......somebody we can name the Posse.

GHT120

Watching Quebec City collect the Grey Cup trophy will be worse than the Baltimore Stallions stealing away with same in 1995.  The best argument says the CFL should stabilize its nine teams before expanding.  And if expansion is being considered, reconsider going to the States.  Sacramento Gold Miners.  Everyone says the idea of American expansion was good, but that the execution was poor.  At the time the CFL needed the money, and let's face it, Larry Smith fleeced the Yanks to save the CFL's life.  It's no longer about money, but what's the difference between Quebec City and an American team anyway?

Expansion?  Maritime Kraken.  Windsor Ambassadors.  London Mustangs.  And let's see......somebody we can name the Posse.
QC: WHY??

US Expansion: Hardly ... you are right that it was a money grab, but the league was just lucky that management of most of the US franchises were a joke.  Many of us recognize that with a complete inability to impose CFL ratio restrictions on a US based clubs, a well managed US based team would be an absolute juggernaut.  Being able to fill a roster from the lower cost "International" pool, of talent they might even be able to afford to out-pay the rest of the teams for a few of the VERY BEST "Nationals", further weakening the opposition.

In their "expansion" season Baltimore made the Grey Cup and then won it in their second/last season (27-9-0 regular season; 5-1 playoffs); it would only have gotten "worse".
Let's  not confuse FACTS with OPINIONS

EastVanMark

Quote
I agree the CIS is a really, really badly run organization
Look HFx, I agree CIS sports draws poorly at the gate for the most part and on television, again for the most part, but does logic mean therefore that the CIS is a badly run organization?  I don't know that, for all I know they are doing the best for the resources they have to try and promote the CIS sports and leagues as "spectator" along the lines of the NCAA, if in fact that is what they are really trying hard to do?  :-\
No, they aren't a badly run organization, they're a horribly run organization.
In fact, they aren't even called the CIS anymore. They're U-Sport now (third name change in 20 years ::), yup, thats great for growing your brand) ::) 

Poor crowds, lack of TV exposure is EXACTLY what they are responsible for and as usual, they are failing miserably.
The Vanier Cup had some real momentum behind it with a string of really strong TV ratings and big crowds at the stadium, but the Bozos at the CIS dropped the ball (no big surprise there) and went for a quick money grab with Rogers who promptly buried them, killing the momentum it took years to build.

Whatever they are called today are a textbook example of how NOT to run a sports property.
 


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