The Last Word

The financial benefits of 1 Grey Cup in Halifax will generate well over $50M in economic benefits to the City of Halifax and the province of Nova Scotia.
This economic benefit will also happen in the month of November when tourism would need a much needed boost
This is not an additional $50 million in benefits though.  The majority of the attendees at a Grey Cup are locals.  They are the individuals spending the majority of the money that constitutes this $50 million in economic benefits, not outsiders from other provinces.  If the Grey Cup is not held in their city, there would not suddenly be a shortfall of $50 million to the local economy.  Those individuals who would have attended the Grey Cup, its many festivals and purchased associated merchandise would have spent their discretionary income on other forms of entertainment and consumable goods throughout the year.  The $300, $500, $1000 or whatever it is these individuals would have spent during Grey Cup week does not simply stay in their pocket.  It finds its way into the local economy through other means.  I would also note that $50 million figure is based on the multiplier effect.

As for the 5 - 10,000 individuals who do attend from out-of-province...considering the Grey Cup will only be held in halifax once every 10-12 years, it hardly justifies the extravagant public expenditure for a twice a generation event.
I disagree.  not with the premise as a whole, but in part.

attendance from out of town (I will say town, not province, because it is a local influx) is above 10000.  I would say it is 15-20 000 by the time it is all said and done.  Remember, there are probably 1000+ there not actually physically attending the game.

that is 15 000 people getting rooms, eating and drinking for 4-5 days.  if you modestly say that is 150/person, that is 10mil+ being spent...modestly.  There is then a boost to people setting things up and rentals and bars...they would get a very small piece of that remaining cash flow if not for the event....even from locals.  Most of that cash would likely have gone to other entertainment or savings.
Do you have proof of that?  Outside of the biggest cities - Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, maybe Calgary and Ottawa - the other cities do not have the hotel capacity to accommodate the numbers you suggest.  Regina has 3,000 hotel rooms and a portion (or majority) of those would have been reserved for guests who are in the city for unrelated activities ie. business tourism.

Hamilton has even fewer rooms - 2000-2500
Winnipeg - approx. 8 - 9000
Edmonton a little over 10,000
Halifax - probably slightly less then Winnipeg

Again, these cities have a significant amount of their inventory reserved for other clientele not related to the Grey Cup festivities so only a percentage of those rooms are available for the Grey Cup guests.  Good luck getting 15 - 20,000 people staying in the city with so few accommodations available.  Perhaps 8 people to a room might do it?

There will be additional visitors to the city of course.  But these tend to people that live just outside the city...probably within a hour or so drive, no overnighters.  These are people who tend to visit the city on a regular basis for shopping and entertainment needs that cannot be met by their immediate surroundings.  Since this is likely the case, there is little to no added benefit from these in-province visitors  during Grey Cup hosting years.  These people will be spending money in the city throughout the year regardless of the Grey Cup.
Yes...like I said, I am being modest:

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-grey-cup-festival-almost-double-the-size-of-2010-celebrations

Quote
Vienneau expected 30,000 to 40,000 out-of-town visitors, with around 500,000 on-site spectators in total.
https://www.cfl.ca/2012/03/06/grey-cup-economic-impact-exceeds-118-million/

Quote
A celebration of Canadian sport, arts and culture that unites the nation each year, the 2011 Grey Cup Festival ran from November 24th through the 27th and played host to 130,000 fans of which 33% came from outside the province, making more than 290,000 visits to official and associated events including the Grey Cup Parade, Vanier Cup, and Grey Cup game.
Quote
These record-setting economic Grey Cup numbers also resulted in the creation of more than 800 jobs and almost $18 million in taxes collected at various levels of government. Total direct spending by visitors was just under $43 million and the total number of overnight visitors hit 59,005.
Just a couple quick examples.  Edmonton, and BC



As far as rooms being used for things other than the GC...not really true in the smaller venues.  How many people are booking rooms for weddings or business a year in advance?  Pretty much every single room is booked a year plus in advance and for the cup in smaller markets and the other "things" are simply deferred to a different week.
Visitors can be a bit of a misleading term.  A visitor is just as likely to be from outside of town.. say Moose jaw in Regina's case or some other small town.. then from out-of province or several hours away that requires an overnight stay.  Those who are visiting from the immediate surrounding area are just as likely to come to a city hosting a Grey Cup for other reasons throughout the year for shopping, entertainment, visiting relatives.  In a Grey Cup hosting year, individuals living in the surrounding area that are partaking in the Grey Cup activities and the game itself are not necessarily making an additional visit to the city and spending several hundred more dollars.  They are likely spending the same amount throughout the entire year, but it is just distributed in a slightly different manner.

500,000 on site is probably counting visitors at each of the individual venues.  Many of these are the same people.  So if Joe Blow travels to 5 different venues over Grey Cup week and visits each one twice he counts as 10 visits/persons.  Same applies to the 290,000 quote for the Toronto Grey Cup.  The same people are counted as separate individuals for separate venues/events.

As for the 33% of 130,000 people being from out-of-province, while I find that number highly dubious (newspapers are not scholarly journals and their methodologies are highly unlikely to hold up under any sort of peer review) I did state in my previous post that the bigger cities (in this case Toronto) are the only ones capable of hosting 15 - 20000 or more individuals do to more considerable hotel accommodations.  I stand by that...Toronto is capable of hosting large amounts of tourists being the business and tourist capital of Canada.  No other city comes close

Ask yourself what kind of jobs are being created by a 4-day festival.  I mean seriously lol you expect anyone with a modicum of common sense to think those 800 jobs are anything of substance.  Are these 1 week jobs?  The taxes collected from the Grey Cup isn't that much more substantial then what would be collected from businesses in the city as a whole throughout the year had the Grey Cup never occurred.  People spend what discretionary income they have on businesses regardless of what special events happen in the city year-to-year.  And you guessed it, they spend the money on businesses that pay taxes.

As your last comment, sure for small hotels.  However, for medium and larger hotels, they most assuredly set aside hotel rooms for clientele that provide a regular stream of income on a regular basis -month-to-month, year-to-year.  That is far more valuable and important to the hotel's viability than a once-in-a-decade sporting event...best not to piss of clients by setting aside rooms or floors in the hotel.

depopulationINC

Yes...like I said, I am being modest:

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/edmonton-grey-cup-festival-almost-double-the-size-of-2010-celebrations

Quote
Vienneau expected 30,000 to 40,000 out-of-town visitors, with around 500,000 on-site spectators in total.
https://www.cfl.ca/2012/03/06/grey-cup-economic-impact-exceeds-118-million/

Quote
A celebration of Canadian sport, arts and culture that unites the nation each year, the 2011 Grey Cup Festival ran from November 24th through the 27th and played host to 130,000 fans of which 33% came from outside the province, making more than 290,000 visits to official and associated events including the Grey Cup Parade, Vanier Cup, and Grey Cup game.
Quote
These record-setting economic Grey Cup numbers also resulted in the creation of more than 800 jobs and almost $18 million in taxes collected at various levels of government. Total direct spending by visitors was just under $43 million and the total number of overnight visitors hit 59,005.
Just a couple quick examples.  Edmonton, and BC



As far as rooms being used for things other than the GC...not really true in the smaller venues.  How many people are booking rooms for weddings or business a year in advance?  Pretty much every single room is booked a year plus in advance and for the cup in smaller markets and the other "things" are simply deferred to a different week.
Visitors can be a bit of a misleading term.  A visitor is just as likely to be from outside of town.. say Moose jaw in Regina's case or some other small town.. then from out-of province or several hours away that requires an overnight stay.  Those who are visiting from the immediate surrounding area are just as likely to come to a city hosting a Grey Cup for other reasons throughout the year for shopping, entertainment, visiting relatives.  In a Grey Cup hosting year, individuals living in the surrounding area that are partaking in the Grey Cup activities and the game itself are not necessarily making an additional visit to the city and spending several hundred more dollars.  They are likely spending the same amount throughout the entire year, but it is just distributed in a slightly different manner.

500,000 on site is probably counting visitors at each of the individual venues.  Many of these are the same people.  So if Joe Blow travels to 5 different venues over Grey Cup week and visits each one twice he counts as 10 visits/persons.  Same applies to the 290,000 quote for the Toronto Grey Cup.  The same people are counted as separate individuals for separate venues/events.

As for the 33% of 130,000 people being from out-of-province, while I find that number highly dubious (newspapers are not scholarly journals and their methodologies are highly unlikely to hold up under any sort of peer review) I did state in my previous post that the bigger cities (in this case Toronto) are the only ones capable of hosting 15 - 20000 or more individuals do to more considerable hotel accommodations.  I stand by that...Toronto is capable of hosting large amounts of tourists being the business and tourist capital of Canada.  No other city comes close

Ask yourself what kind of jobs are being created by a 4-day festival.  I mean seriously lol you expect anyone with a modicum of common sense to think those 800 jobs are anything of substance.  Are these 1 week jobs?  The taxes collected from the Grey Cup isn't that much more substantial then what would be collected from businesses in the city as a whole throughout the year had the Grey Cup never occurred.  People spend what discretionary income they have on businesses regardless of what special events happen in the city year-to-year.  And you guessed it, they spend the money on businesses that pay taxes.

As your last comment, sure for small hotels.  However, for medium and larger hotels, they most assuredly set aside hotel rooms for clientele that provide a regular stream of income on a regular basis -month-to-month, year-to-year.  That is far more valuable and important to the hotel's viability than a once-in-a-decade sporting event...best not to piss of clients by setting aside rooms or floors in the hotel.
I did specifically say "I will say town, not province, because it is a local influx" because we are talking local economic boost, not provincial, but the city and immediate area around.  If someone is coming to an event in your city and spending money that they would not normally spend there, that is a boost and can't simply be ruled out because they live in the general area.  The only thing you are maybe not getting from them is lodging take-in.  "shopping, entertainment, visiting relatives" is going to happen no matter what.  

Entertainment would more likely be in their community or taking a bigger trip, not heading into Halifax for 5 days.  Taking their entertainment spending and putting it in your city instead of theirs or somewhere else is a win for your economy.  Not sure how one could argue that.



https://www.cfl.ca/2013/05/22/100th-grey-cup-festival-brought-1331-million-to-ontario/

Toronto, 2013, 133.1 million dollars.  Why was it so much more?  Without reading too closely or delving into it more, likely because of those added available hotel rooms.  The 15-20k visitors I think would be pretty realistic, the difference is that instead of probably averaging 3.5 to 4 in a room they were likely closer to  2.5-3 per room.  Smaller markets see people double occupying, using cots and renting rooms in people's houses.  No, not every person stays every day while there, especially if they can commute, but even Regina, which I believe had a bit under 3400 rooms in 2013 and 3900 now, a few people average per room is 10 000 people lodging.  In Torontto, there are likely 15k+ legitimately lodging for the game


As for the jobs created, don't care, it is income created for those people and thus money in the pocket, then there are big bucks in tents, chairs, tables, booze, etc.  All that adds up to a tidy sum, and is obviously significant enough that economists look at it.

As for setting aside rooms, I would be pretty shocked if that was more than a very tiny number and based on companies that essentially have rooms 365.  I know in 2013 there were many regulars who had to reschedule stuff because there were no rooms.  A hotel doesn't care if you are a regular or not if every room for 50 miles is booked.


It sounds like you want to shrug off the numbers that are out there for most GC in the past several years because it doesn't fit your narrative.  The numbers are obviously not exact, but they are pretty darned consistent in being rather large and exceeding that 50mil number by a large margin no matter where the game is hosted.  I highly doubt their economic impact is out by 50%, but perhaps you know more than all of these reporters and economists who actually researched it.  Unlikely, but possible.

Mightygoose

In terms of hotels setting aside rooms. It's all based on yield and what will best served to their bottom line for a week to week or month to month basis.

The firm I'm with is one who that provides a regular stream of business year round. When there is a large event like a Grey Cup or more commonly a large congress, we get the lower priority. 

Regular buyers get a good rate for giving business in bulk in their contract in exchange of book out periods for events where hotels can charge more high demand periods - such as a Grey Cup for example.

Vermonter


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Iconic SR

They would be crazy to not name the team the Atlantic Schooners. So much history, energy and equity already in place.

KevinRiley2

I have NOT read the previous posts, so I was hoping posters would give me a number that would reflect the odds of a 10th team being out East by 2021?

50%?  80%?  10%?  Something in between?
* Kevin Riley = The moral conscience AND movie reviewer for cfl.ca.  :)
* When in doubt, always ask (WWKD) What Would Kevin Do?
* Forgive me for always taking the High Road.  It's the ONLY Road I know.

Iconic SR

I have NOT read the previous posts, so I was hoping posters would give me a number that would reflect the odds of a 10th team being out East by 2021?

50%?  80%?  10%?  Something in between?
It's the stadium build timing that determines it. If the league awards a franchise in 2018, I say it's 100% for a 2021 kickoff @ first game. 50/50 for 2020

KevinRiley2

I have NOT read the previous posts, so I was hoping posters would give me a number that would reflect the odds of a 10th team being out East by 2021?

50%?  80%?  10%?  Something in between?
It's the stadium build timing that determines it. If the league awards a franchise in 2018, I say it's 100% for a 2021 kickoff @ first game. 50/50 for 2020
Thank you.

Who is putting up the money for a stadium?

HfxTC

They would be crazy to not name the team the Atlantic Schooners. So much history, energy and equity already in place.
 
Ah yes! They should also get the old scoreboad from the seventies they bought used. Maybe the Shooners could be used to name the boosters but naming the team that makes little sense if it doesn't strike a cord with the majority of fans. In my mind you can't on one hand claim you want to call it Atlantic (regional team) and then use a symbol that is Halifax centric.

What will really be historical is if someone SHOW ME THE MONEY JERRY!
Everything I write is just an opinion formed from various sources. Some more reliable than others, it is expressed as a composite of facts, innuendos, emotions, personal experiences and complete fabulation into a gumbo for entertainment purposes alone.

KevinRiley2

Let the fans name the team.

Iconic SR

Let the fans name the team.
Hasn't that already happened?

I don't see any other ''fan groups" out there beside the ones wearing Atlantic Schooners jerseys and organizing their awesome Kitchen Parties. They have their own cheerleaders. With calendars! It's incredible, actually. Out of sheer respect for this amazing group of fans who show up every year at Grey Cup festivities and host a great party - I cannot say that others should pick the name. This group already has.

KevinRiley2

Let the fans name the team.
Hasn't that already happened?

I don't see any other ''fan groups" out there beside the ones wearing Atlantic Schooners jerseys and organizing their awesome Kitchen Parties.
Fair enough.  Then the decision has been made.  

The only way I would choose something other than Atlantic Schooners, if the fans want it, is if a company owns the franchise and wanted to use their name.

Example :

If the McCain family owned the teams and wanted to call the team the Atlantic Fries (silly example), I'm okay with it.

Iconic SR

Let the fans name the team.
Hasn't that already happened?

I don't see any other ''fan groups" out there beside the ones wearing Atlantic Schooners jerseys and organizing their awesome Kitchen Parties.
Fair enough.  Then the decision has been made.  

The only way I would choose something other than Atlantic Schooners, if the fans want it, is if a company owns the franchise and wanted to use their name.

Example :

If the McCain family owned the teams and wanted to call the team the Atlantic Fries (silly example), I'm okay with it.
It sounds like the Maritime group wants to own the team so it doesn't sound like any corporation will influence the team name so much. Stadium name though is up for grabs 

GHT120

I have NOT read the previous posts, so I was hoping posters would give me a number that would reflect the odds of a 10th team being out East by 2021?

50%?  80%?  10%?  Something in between?
It's the stadium build timing that determines it. If the league awards a franchise in 2018, I say it's 100% for a 2021 kickoff @ first game. 50/50 for 2020
Thank you.

Who is putting up the money for a stadium?
Large parts of this thread recently have been the discussion on whether public money should be contributed.
Let's  not confuse FACTS with OPINIONS

schoonersfan

Let the fans name the team.
Hasn't that already happened?

I don't see any other ''fan groups" out there beside the ones wearing Atlantic Schooners jerseys and organizing their awesome Kitchen Parties. They have their own cheerleaders. With calendars! It's incredible, actually. Out of sheer respect for this amazing group of fans who show up every year at Grey Cup festivities and host a great party - I cannot say that others should pick the name. This group already has.
This group got its name from the failed expansion in the 1984. It was announced and the team name Schooners was selected by a naming contest. They have been keeping it because its our history. The only thing that is guaranteed this time around is that the team will be Atlantic, they will have a naming contest this time around but from what the ownership group has said the name Schooners has come up 5 to 1 over anything else. 

Personally I would love to keep the name, but its not that group that gets to choose the name.
 


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